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ATTN: White belts! Want to get better?

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    #16
    The more experienced belts can have a big part in helping the noobs along too though.

    I often tell a white belt to work on one thing - pass my guard, or stand back up from here for example. It gives them a focus, rather than trying to smashsubmit.

    I had a fat whitebelt get me in a headlock and he kept asking if I was tapping. "Nope, you can't finish from there" was my response. So he'd grunt and try the same stupid shit even harder. By the time he got tired of squeezing my cranium it was quite easy to put him on his back and show him how to properly finish.

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      #17
      Originally posted by BKR View Post
      No, with proper instruction and guidance, they won't spaz, and if you tell them to stop, they usually will. If you just throw raw whitebelts in with the general group and ignore them, then they may well spaz.
      yes we will spaz....I have enough friends who are higher level that I was warned to go 50% because of being fat and don't want to accidentally hurt my betters. I joined the regular class and learn moves, drill and then roll. I spaz from time to time. I am in the learn while failing thing. I probably have some privates in my future because I feel that I am not progressing as fast as I would like to. Either that or going to a school with a true beginners class.

      I appreciate the advice...it is exactly what my friends have said.

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        #18
        Likewise in Aikido. Alot of the locks are such that the more you try to resist/tense/be a macho idiot, the more painful it will be and the more likely you are to get something broken when partnered with someone who knows how to execute the technique correctly. Not to mention, with all that tensing they tend to forget about the ukemi they have to take out of it and end up faceplanting.

        SO frustrating when they look at me like I'm a terrible person for actually performing the technique I was instructed to perform!! Especially after I have politely warned them of the consequences of spazzing!!!

        @tao.jonez: I've had the same thing happen to me several times with shoulder pins. If I'm telling you that the technique is not right/cannot be corrected from your current position then why on earth would you continue to do the same thing with more force?! I don't understand it!!
        Last edited by Jazz.w92; 4/11/2011 4:46pm, .

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          #19
          To the people that are "defending" spazzing. It is NOT required to learn Jiu Jitsu. It is NOT your classmates' responsibility to tell you not to be a spazz. It is entirely on you to relax and absorb knowledge and technique.

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            #20
            There is a big difference between someone not knowing technique and trying to muscle through a sweep (because they don't know any better) and someone just spazzing out and trying to gouge/crank/smash everything and anything they can get their hands on. One of those things is acceptable if you're a beginner and one isn't. Guess which one it is.

            People will often try to mask lack of skill with aggression, and that is often an excellent way to cause injuries on both parties. I try to give new people some slack and politely let them figure out that going all "Hulk smash" doesn't work even against a pretty low level blue belt (me), and it definitely won't work against anybody above me. If they don't get that point then I'll just frustrate the hell out of them by stuffing everything they try and making them spend the next five minutes flailing away under my side control or in my guard. I generally don't even worry about tapping them, I'll just make them really uncomfortable and won't give an inch on anything. I find that either those people get the message and try to tone it down and learn something, or they quit/leave.

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              #21
              With a proper training programme and good beginner management you can minimise spazzing. Spazzing mainly becomes a problem when beginners are just inserted into a normal class and there is no introductory programme for beginners where they are all brought on together.

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                #22
                I'm a huge heavy guy, and often I have the advantage (as some of the other guys here have said) of being able to fold a beginner up without necessarily causing too much pain, or wrenching submissions on too quickly, etc. This has been mainly due to my size, and somewhat less to do with previous grappling experience.

                When I'm rolling with my betters (by far the larger sample in this equation) I already know that I don't learn anything by simply crushing someone with my weight. This fact in addition to the (the guys at my gym are better than me so they can stay on top easier) fact actually leads to me spending the majority of my time on my back, which probably means I spend more time training defensively than offensively (which actually works out pretty well for my level of development).

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                  #23
                  The white belt classes at the school where I train were just changed because of noob spazzing. The black belt who runs my school was getting emails from people who were quitting because they were getting crushed in free rolling and so ended up not wanting to train jiu jitsu. It wasn't a ton of people, but it was enough that he decided that for the white belt classes they would do positional wrestling only until they had 3 stripes on their white belt, at which point they could jump into the blue belt and up classes. I think this is a pretty good compromise - the noobs have a clearly defined goal such as escaping side control or the back or whatever, and they still get to go "live". I know the argument on the other side is that people pay for jiu jitsu because they want to wrestle, they want to have fun and test themselves, and I get it, but if people are leaving the school because people can't be cool about it then I understand the decision. A lot of Gracie schools are super strict about not letting white belts free roll until they get a LOT of experience because of this stuff. I remember when I was starting out, I had no clue what the heck I was doing and probably wouldn't have minded having the structure of simple positional wrestling for the first six months or whatever. As an experienced blue, at this point I don't care if the people I roll with are flipping out or not, as I will either let them exhaust themselves and capitalize on their mistakes or just tap if they're sitting on my neck or whatever. But I think it matters more for people who are just getting started.

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                    #24
                    I'm a BJJ white, fresh from two years of judo. Imagine how I feel. I know enough to think technically and go relaxed, but still, my ground game is difficult when some 100kg (Metric, learn it fuckers) asshole is trying to choke me from my guard. I can survive, and win, but it's not fucking comfortable.

                    I just chill out. I usually roll back into guard. I hate other no stripe white belts because they just try and give me gi rash.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by judoka_uk View Post
                      With a proper training programme and good beginner management you can minimise spazzing. Spazzing mainly becomes a problem when beginners are just inserted into a normal class and there is no introductory programme for beginners where they are all brought on together.
                      This is my point. Without a higher ranking belt instructing them, how would a new student know to relax and focus on technique? I think the noob mentality is that bjj/judo/etc. are competitive sports, and the objective of rolling is to win. It's like a pickup game of hoops - sure it's fun, but you still play to win.

                      I wish every white belt in the world would read and take WhiteSharks post to heart, though.

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                        #26
                        Can somebody define "Spazzing" please.

                        May sound silly my asking but ive only trained in one place and everybody trys to kill each other when we roll.

                        Is this spazzing?

                        The teacher often shouts at people for trying to use strength rather than tecnique and people rarely get injured.

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                          #27
                          Yes - spazzing is using sheer strength to grapple, while throwing technique out the window.

                          If you're grunting and straining, you're spazzing 9/10 times.

                          Here's a video example - watch the dude in the red belt - he's trying to overcome technique with pure athleticism. Notice that he's yanking, jerking, pulling, and essentially making things worse for himself every step of the way. He thinks he's grappling... that's a spaz.

                          Last edited by tao.jonez; 4/12/2011 9:53am, . Reason: add video and comments

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by PDA View Post
                            Can somebody define "Spazzing" please.

                            May sound silly my asking but ive only trained in one place and everybody trys to kill each other when we roll.

                            Is this spazzing?

                            The teacher often shouts at people for trying to use strength rather than tecnique and people rarely get injured.
                            If you have no idea what you are doing, but you are doing it as hard and fast as you can, then you're spazzing.

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                              #29
                              Thanks Kin I understand now.

                              So to go as hard and fast as you can to get a position or control the person but then hold back on cranking the sub ect... is not spazziing.

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                                #30
                                If you know what you're doing, then you're not spazzing, generally speaking. You can still be rolling with too much intensity for the circumstances without it being considered spazzing.
                                A lot of wrestlers don't spazz, but go WAY to hard for drilling in class.

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