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Boxing V Muay Thai (hands only)

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    #46
    Originally posted by Shaolinz
    I know I didn't understand what you said. A 230 lb man thigh kicked you for three rounds and you were only limping by the 3rd? TKD? Please give a little more detail before I think about this too much.
    I'm glad Ashly understands what I mean. Sheesh.
    I was preparing for a fight with a 160 lb. chick. So was he kicking me as hard as he could? Um, no. Was he kicking me harder than a 160 lb. chick could who'd had 2 MTR fights? Yes.
    Did I just stand there and let him kick me in the leg for 3 rounds? No. That was when I actually had decent movement and footwork. Pretend for a moment that 160 pounds of girl is easier to move around the ring than 230 pounds of boy.


    And yes, I agree that defense needs modifications when switching rule-styles, but I was more responding to Ashly's post about my fight with Charmaine.


    Doesn't anyone ever go to sleep here? Christ, it's late.

    I'm calling it a night. If anyone would like to arrange sparring in any stand-up rule style, I'm in. I need the work for my upcoming fights, and maybe I will get my footwork back to show you fuckers what I mean. (I mean that in the nicest possible way-- think of it as a term of endearment)

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      #47
      Originally posted by Kidspatula
      when he says cut kicks, he doesn't mean just a straight up kick to the outer thigh, he's talking about taking advantage of your having your leg in the air by attacking the supporting leg and dropping you on your ass. There are some thai boxers that are really good at taking advantage of this. I currently suck ass at cut kicks (I tried to do one on Terri, but flubbed it pretty bad).
      Exactly. Cut kicks, throws and knees in that order are what destroyed the FCR fighters I've seen. Hell the one I fought told me that he'd never fight MTR again because of the clinch game.

      I'm not out to prove MTR > FCR either. I've seen FCR fighters make a great transition but not without respecting the changes to their game that come with it and training with MT guys. I used to train with Kelly Leo and Trish Hill they both made awesome transitions to Muay Thai rules but because they value boxing handwork they prefered International rules (leg kicks).

      Wow I just read JennaD's loction this whole time I thought she was in Atlanta for some reason.
      Last edited by WhiteShark; 7/06/2006 8:40pm, .

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        #48
        Shaolinz: It is a pity that I can't make the Austin throwdown... I am not a particularly good boxer, but I suspect that somebody playing in the "dance and jab" style who used straight rights and lefts might be able to give an MT guy a fun round even with the legs involved. It'd be fun to watch as a pure power-vs-movement contest.

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          #49
          Pfft I'm not even near a good example of a good MT practioner. I still have bad bad habits I have to get rid of by getting hit in the face abunch more. (damn you TMA) However, I'm willing to spar anyone. If you beat me hard enough maybe that lesson will finally stick and I'll improve.

          I accidently threw a chambered roundhouse last sparring session. It suprised my partner so much it actually landed. Didn't do much but it landed.

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            #50
            A lot of the differences between Muay Thai and Boxing punches are a result of the different stances. To handle low kicks as efficiently as possible, a Muay Thai stance is more square and open than a Boxing stance. Thus Muay Thai jabs are not as quick and snappy as boxing jabs, and they appear to be more looping. The more diagonal Boxing stance is optimal for generating power with your right cross, thus a right cross thrown from a Muay Thai stance is unlikely to be as powerful as a Boxing cross.

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              #51
              Originally posted by WhiteShark
              Exactly. Cut kicks, throws and knees in that order are what destroyed the FCR fighters I've seen. Hell the one I fought told me that he'd never fight MTR again because of the clinch game.

              I'm not out to prove MTR > FCR either. I've seen FCR fighters make a great transition but not without respecting the changes to their game that come with it and training with MT guys. I used to train with Kelly Leo and Trish Hill they both made awesome transitions to Muay Thai rules but because they value boxing handwork they prefered International rules (leg kicks).

              Wow I just read JennaD's loction this whole time I thought she was in Atlanta for some reason.
              her buddy goodtimz is here in Atlanta and she was here and did some sparring at Knuckle Up with me and Kat
              Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

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                #52
                Originally posted by Kidspatula
                I pretty much agree, though I think bobbing and weaving still has utility in muay thai, you just have to be more careful about when and how you do it. Really, every action you do has some sort of potential counter attack.
                This reminds of me your big idol Buakaw. I recall a lot of ducking from the waist by him against Virgil Kalakoda and more recently in the MAX GP he just won.

                Maybe it was a matter of no one expecting him to use tactics like that? Let alone punch so well.
                52 blocks documentary: arrived

                "Joe Lauzon looks like a quiet, Internet guy..." -- Dana White

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                  #53
                  I see a lot of ducking like that from thai dudes, actually, and I think the main reason they get away with it is because they're so fucking quick and the ducking is very short. Buakaw does tend to eat a fair amount of uppercuts though since he puts his head down like that.

                  Kaoklai does the same thing and as I recall, Yodsanklai was doing it in his fight against JWP quite a bit aswell.
                  Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

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                    #54
                    Complete sideline, I find {what i think of as} the MT high line defense easier to teach to newbs than bobbing and weaving, mostly due to simpler timing. I am just getting started with MT though, so i might need to shut the fuck up.

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                      #55
                      might be a silly question but if you are a noob to it... why are you teaching it to other noobs?

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                        #56
                        I'm not, i'm obsvering in a class that teaches both. It's the intro kickboxing class, hence many noobs to observe

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                          #57
                          Boxing hands has something to offer under muay thai rules, I have seen this again and again.

                          I have never seen Muay Thai hands offer anything under boxing rules.

                          Boxing has a level of sophistication that Muay Thai does not in terms of hand techs. While not all of these are usable under Thai rules, some are. I think the best way to go is to learn to box first then adapt to Thai if you want to compete under Thai rules or in MMA.

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                            #58
                            While not all of these are usable under Thai rules, some are.
                            Which ones aren't usable?

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                              #59
                              Just on a pure time-wise basis, I train my guys for about an hour and a half, 4x weekly. That involves multiple stations through water bags, heavy bags, speed bags, focus mitts, controlled sparring, scenario drills, (boxer, brawler, in-and-out fighter, etc.), uppercut bag, etc., etc. Would a Thai fighter even spend half that time working on his hands, let alone so many different drills?

                              There are some obvious differences. Example. Muay Thai throws their uppercuts, when they are thrown, almost entirely from the torque of the obliques. They also put their hands very far away from their face when throwing it, almost more of an outside punch. In boxing, the driving force comes from the legs pushing upwards after bending at the knees. The arms are generally held tight to prevent hooks, since this is used as an inside punch. There's no doubt the boxing version of this punch hurts more, (summarization of forces and all), but would the boxing style punch still be effective under M.T. rules?

                              Looking at the ducking and slipping ideas though, I don't see level change as a big determining factor once the rules change from Muay Thai to full MMA fighting. I've seen many takedowns performed from a low-level base against Thai fighters, because you can see the weight shift from a solid bent-knee position with your eyes on the opponent, thus allowing an opportunity for takedowns. Even an exceptional Muay Thai fighter like Wanderlei Silva got taken down by Arona.

                              Ultimately, in determining the 'better' style, I think MMA. Is what I'm teaching in boxing still valid under a No-Holds-Barred situation? I think, largely, boxing teaches valid techniques that can be translated into MMA rules. As they say, the rules determine the game.

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                                #60
                                we were talking under muay thai rules, not MMA.
                                Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

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