Boxing V Muay Thai (hands only)

[JennaD]

A-ha. All cleared up now.

If the girl who I offered to fight in a MTR fight a year ago hadn't backed out on 2 different occasions, I could answer this question with some real knowledge, as my hands are anything but MT hands. But she decided to bag our fight twice, so I can't do anything other than speculate.

I can say that when we were preparing for the fight w/ the MTR chick, I wasn't working any different offensive hand stuff other than what I normally work. And even though my old trainer hates me, he knows his shit.

But, I will officially blame you for bringing bad boxing karma my way, as I just got offered a boxing fight on Aug. 26, and I've been doing nothing except sitting on my ass for the past 3 1/2 months, minus last weekend's sparring w/ Kat, Ashly, and Terrie... AND, I hate boxing. But I sometimes get talked into it being a necessary evil.

[Torakaka]

I honestly don't know the difference between muay thai punching and boxing other than the fact that, traditionally, muay thai fighters have sloppier punches. Having crisp punch combinations and good slipping skills seems to me like it would only benefit a thai boxer's game.

[Torakaka]

A-ha. All cleared up now.

If the girl who I offered to fight in a MTR fight a year ago hadn't backed out on 2 different occasions, I could answer this question with some real knowledge, as my hands are anything but MT hands. But she decided to bag our fight twice, so I can't do anything other than speculate.

I can say that when we were preparing for the fight w/ the MTR chick, I wasn't working any different offensive hand stuff other than what I normally work. And even though my old trainer hates me, he knows his shit.

But, I will officially blame you for bringing bad boxing karma my way, as I just got offered a boxing fight on Aug. 26, and I've been doing nothing except sitting on my ass for the past 3 1/2 months, minus last weekend's sparring w/ Kat, Ashly, and Terrie... AND, I hate boxing. But I sometimes get talked into it being a necessary evil.

Well your fight with Charmaine was going to be modified muay thai, which is a pretty different game from full thai rules. No elbows to the head or knees to the head, which is what White Shark has been saying will have the greatest effect on your ability to "box".

[DARKSON]

Wait a minute... I thought we were talking hand strikes only??

So, let's take the best MTR fighter in the world (I'm sure some of you MTR fighters can throw out some names and weight classes), and tell him he can't use his legs, but he can throw punches and elbows. Now, let's throw him in a ring against the best boxer in the world at that weight class.

Does ANYONE on here think the MTR fighter will win that "hands only" battle, even if elbows are allowed?

Thats a tough one. I dont know. I would pay 30 bucks to see the fight.

[alex]

i dont think it would even be close. i mean if you look at the few examples we have like Ray Sefo getting KOed in the first round against some nobody boxer...

[JennaD]

Well your fight with Charmaine was going to be modified muay thai, which is a pretty different game from full thai rules. No elbows to the head or knees to the head, which is what White Shark has been saying will have the greatest effect on your ability to "box".

Someone being able to throw an elbow or a knee at my head will have zero effect on how well I punch. Just like my foot will be in someone's face regardless of whether or not they can kick or knee me in the leg.
Just because something "new" is being tossed at a fighter doesn't mean that fighter needs to throw their old tools out the window. Especially if, as in the case of boxer v. MT fighter, one set of skills is vastly superior to another.

But I don't think that was the issue here.

[WhiteShark]

Wow you really just revealed your ignorance if you are serious. I have watched so many FCR fighters fold to leg kicks and knees it's not even funny. If you really think you will still land easy head shots when people are cut kicking you you better spar under MTR more before your fight.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant but that's what I'm hearing right now.

[Shaolinz]

Someone being able to throw an elbow or a knee at my head will have zero effect on how well I punch

It should effect how you defend yourself. Boxing is about a little more then just who can punch the best (unless your fighting someone you have no business fighting).

Just like my foot will be in someone's face regardless of whether or not they can kick or knee me in the leg.

...

Just because something "new" is being tossed at a fighter doesn't mean that fighter needs to throw their old tools out the window.

No one said anything about people throwing all their old tools out the window. The subject was would the boxer need to make adjustments to his style? If so, what would they be? Method of striking? Dodging? Blocking? Stance?

Something "new" can also K.O. you easily when its a knee or elbow to the head. A clinch when your infighting won't save you either. That should be considered atleast a moderately important difference.

Especially if, as in the case of boxer v. MT fighter, one set of skills is vastly superior to another.

Superior in both environments?

[Torakaka]

Someone being able to throw an elbow or a knee at my head will have zero effect on how well I punch. Just like my foot will be in someone's face regardless of whether or not they can kick or knee me in the leg.
Just because something "new" is being tossed at a fighter doesn't mean that fighter needs to throw their old tools out the window. Especially if, as in the case of boxer v. MT fighter, one set of skills is vastly superior to another.

But I don't think that was the issue here.

I guess it really depends on your style. I don't think it'd effect you in particular ALL that much since you're stay very upright when you box, but boxers that do a lot of level changing and in-fighting would definitely be greatly effected by the addition of elbows and knees. You really can't get away with all the "boxing" that you can in boxing. For instance, in my sparring with Terri, there was a point where she basically had her head at chest level on me and was trying to work some boxing style in-fighting, and were clinching or knees allowed I would've been able to grab her and really tear her up. Given that that wasn't allowed, what she was doing was working just fine.

Even with just the addition of kicks, a lot of the boxing specific tricks are a lot more risky to mess around with because doing a quick level change can result in getting kicked in the face (which happens to me on occassion).

[JennaD]

Wow you really just revealed your ignorance if you are serious. I have watched so many FCR fighters fold to leg kicks and knees it's not even funny. If you really think you will still land easy head shots when people are cut kicking you you better spar under MTR more before your fight.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant but that's what I'm hearing right now.

What I mean is- my worry of someone kicking me in the leg isn't going to change my offensive game plan in a fight. Just like a boxer's potential worry about getting elbowed in the face isn't going to change how they throw punches.

I don't mean that my leg won't have a big bruise on it the next day or that it won't start to hurt after I get kicked in the leg a bunch of times.

While getting ready for my little modified MTR fight last year, a 230 lb. dude drilled me the legs for 3 rounds. Yes it hurt. Yes, I was limping by the end of 3 rounds.

But yes, I was still able to put my foot in his face. I don't know about anyone else on here, but when my thigh starts to hurt from taking kicks, I'd rather have it in the air, smacking someone, than have my weight on it or have it on the ground to get kicked again.

[Torakaka]

when he says cut kicks, he doesn't mean just a straight up kick to the outer thigh, he's talking about taking advantage of your having your leg in the air by attacking the supporting leg and dropping you on your ass. There are some thai boxers that are really good at taking advantage of this. I currently suck ass at cut kicks (I tried to do one on Terri, but flubbed it pretty bad).

[Shaolinz]

I know I didn't understand what you said. A 230 lb man thigh kicked you for three rounds and you were only limping by the 3rd? TKD? Please give a little more detail before I think about this too much.

[Torakaka]

JennaD has huge damn legs, and I imagine the guy wasn't going full bore on her with the leg kicks

[JennaD]

I guess it really depends on your style. I don't think it'd effect you in particular ALL that much since you're stay very upright when you box, but boxers that do a lot of level changing and in-fighting would definitely be greatly effected by the addition of elbows and knees.

Ashly- you are probably right in that I'm speaking from my own experience-- and the reason that I don't get so low in boxing is because I kickbox as well... (which my boxing trainer yells at me for all the time). But, there are times when I try (and rarely succeed) in moving my big head.

That is Terrie's game-- coming straight in and firing with her head down. That's not boxing, though.

Here's my bottom line-- I think head movement is great--in MT or boxing or kickboxing. I've seen people duck into kicks, and I've seen boxers duck into punches. Shit happens. I've also seen someone with cracked ribs slip under someone's big old kick that was going to their face.
Can you slip a knee? I don't know-- you tell me. But I still think there's a place for much more head movement in MT.

[Torakaka]

Ashly- you are probably right in that I'm speaking from my own experience-- and the reason that I don't get so low in boxing is because I kickbox as well... (which my boxing trainer yells at me for all the time). But, there are times when I try (and rarely succeed) in moving my big head.

That is Terrie's game-- coming straight in and firing with her head down. That's not boxing, though.

Here's my bottom line-- I think head movement is great--in MT or boxing or kickboxing. I've seen people duck into kicks, and I've seen boxers duck into punches. Shit happens. I've also seen someone with cracked ribs slip under someone's big old kick that was going to their face.
Can you slip a knee? I don't know-- you tell me. But I still think there's a place for much more head movement in MT.

Oh I agree totally, we practice head movement quite a bit in my muay thai schools and I try to utilize it as much as I can, but you really just have to be a lot more careful about it when there are attacks coming from all these new angles. I mean, if you watch me and Kat boxing sparring video vs, say, me vs Terry or me vs you kickboxing (yeah I know we didn't get that one on video :( ) The difference in how much bobbing,weaving, and slipping I do is huge and it's because I only have to worry about those couple of angles of attack that are involved in boxing.