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Boxing V Muay Thai (hands only)

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    #16
    The ultimate, would to be good at both, and both rule sets, and good at what each one is known for- not just a good boxer doing MT, etc. I belive, the only way to do that is to go to a hard core gym of either style. If you're going to box, go to a boxing gym for a while, where you have all the kids from the hood to spar with. Same goes for the boxer who wants to cross train- he should go do it with some Thai's if at all possible, or, even better, go to Thailand. I'm old as dirt, so it's out for me, but all you young kids should go over their and train, at a farang friendly gym. I said train- I'd hold off on the matchs for awhile.There seems to be two styles of MT in Thailand- one where they score points on each other, and the other where they try to kill the foreigner. Just my 2 cents, which is all it's worth.
    "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

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      #17
      Shaolinz is starting to learn. My opinion is that Boxers are better boxers but not necasarily better punchers for fighting Muay Thai. I've had training in both punching styles and the main thing I think Boxing does better is ring control and movement patterns.

      Mostly I want other people to weigh in on that.

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        #18
        my boxing training has definitely had a much stronger focus on balance, footwork and ring movement than my thai boxing class. Really that whole part of my game comes from my boxing. Of course, my current thai boxing school doesn't have a boxing ring so it makes the whole "ring movement/ring control" thing harder to work.
        Ranked #9 internationally at 118lbs by WIKBA http://www.womenkickboxing.com/wikba...rch%202009.htm

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          #19
          Cool thread.

          I have nothing to add since my only MT experiance was cardio kickboxing. question, does MT commonly work on slipping punches as much as boxing?

          I've had training in both punching styles and the main thing I think Boxing does better is ring control and movement patterns.
          No flying knees or long range kicks in boxing so you have to be more tactical.
          You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

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            #20
            Originally posted by PirateJon
            Cool thread.
            question, does MT commonly work on slipping punches as much as boxing?
            Of course not.

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              #21
              question, does MT commonly work on slipping punches as much as boxing?
              In my experience, MT philosophy is more of block it, check it or eat it.

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                #22
                (Hrm. I've edited this three times, and I still can't quite get this to come out right.)

                Thanks for the thread.

                I don't know enough about MT to say anything intelligent, but to my eye they look like every punch is "swinging for the fences," rather than trying to set something up, and like they're substituting toughness for technique.

                Which, please, don't take me wrong -- although I can visually understand at an instant that the body mechanics are different, I could write everything I know about MT on a cocktail napkin, and still have enough space left over to give the waitress my number. But a boxer assumes that he's going to have to put a lot of leather in the air to make it through his opponent's defenses, whereas the MT (and MMA) punchers I see tend to look like they expect each punch to achieve something.

                Does that jive with what you have all seen?

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                  #23
                  I find thai boxers neglect uppercuts and hooks far too much to even compare the punching of MT and western boxing. when i went to the stadium in koh samui the thais there seemed way too sloppy in delivering punches. and when punches where thrown they were telegraphed,slow, and heavy. powerful no doubt but no skill or speed.

                  A lazy and looping hook was often used as a way of getting into the clinch, and it worked. so i figure good for them, if they punch crap to knee amazingly well why not.


                  Also from a lot of thia ive seen( in thailand) im not sure of what its like here or in the U.S. the thais tend to stand face on too each other and just belt each other until one is kncoked off balance, then they clinch and knee them to buggery. it all seemed rather antiquitated to me, like old block groups of soldiers trading volleys.

                  I much prefer the boxing game, it seems to have more intellect involved with it, better ring craft, and makes for a better fight to watch(even if less brutally entertaining).

                  What the thais do and do well however in punching is the overhand right, they have that down. other than that their left hooks arent too bad. their jabbing is awful.

                  I havent seen any western MT fights, what is the punching like in these, i imadgine its a lot more western boxing orientted as 1) its what most people grow up with and see when thinking of a punch 2) the trainers over here tend to sway more towards punching due to Mt rules being watered down.


                  Sorry to go over old points but chucking in what i noticed when i went to see the thias fight.


                  Got a nice splatter of blood on my face too, From an elbow to the nose.....nice :)



                  As an off point, anyone got any thoughts on kickboxing's punches compared to MT

                  sorry to hijack *tips hat*.

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                    #24
                    Sounds like a pretty good basis. The differences would be the boxer is only being threatened by hands, and they can only go to his head or body. Muay is being threatened by more then hands so they have more to worry about and more options when trying to get by their opponents defense. I've seen guys so worried about the next leg kick that they don't even see the punch coming. Also, generally MT techniques are about doing the most damage you can and committing to the strike as much as possible (obviously if you throw something purely to set something else up then this isn't true). Take a roundhouse, if you throw the kick properly and miss your usually better off just going with the momentum then trying to stop it and get back to your stance. In MMA, you have yet another problem: takedowns. Alot of guys can be real hesitant throwing strikes in an MMA situation purely because they don't want to open themselves up. If they do commit to opening yourself up, you better make sure it hits hard if it hits.

                    That being said. Generally, MMA guys are the worst boxers I've ever seen. Alot of the time they just swing wildly then attempting to throw any decent combo (just like any statement there are exceptions).

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                      #25
                      Wait a minute... I thought we were talking hand strikes only??

                      So, let's take the best MTR fighter in the world (I'm sure some of you MTR fighters can throw out some names and weight classes), and tell him he can't use his legs, but he can throw punches and elbows. Now, let's throw him in a ring against the best boxer in the world at that weight class.

                      Does ANYONE on here think the MTR fighter will win that "hands only" battle, even if elbows are allowed?

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                        #26
                        Does ANYONE on here think the MTR fighter will win that "hands only" battle, even if elbows are allowed?
                        Missed the point yet again. Please read the above post that states: boxers are the best boxers. The question proposed by the thread is a little different then your question. If a MT guy was to step into a boxing ring? 99% of them would probably get crushed (even with elbows as long as their opponent is "equally" skilled). What about if a boxer stepped into a MT ring? Would he need to adapted his usual boxing techniques to make his striking effective? Thats more of the question. Does the "best pure hands style" apply completely in a MT ring or are the two styles in question to different to really be comparing what they do as closely as some people try to compare them.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Shaolinz
                          Missed the point yet again. Please read the above post that states: boxers are the best boxers. .
                          Yet again? Are you keeping track of how many points you think I miss? Please send me my report card.

                          Anyway- maybe I don't really understand the question. A ring is a ring. If we are talking hands only, then it is hands only, even if it's a "MT" ring.

                          Are we not talking hands only?

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                            #28
                            I think it also depends on the weight classes- I think, the higher up you go, the more it would favor the boxer, lower you go, the Muay thai guy. You have to go up to about 150 lbs+, where knock outs are more common and achievable. Also, how long do you think it would really take to teach a western boxer muay thai kicking? I think it's not nearly as long as it takes to teach/trian a good western boxer technique. Really, it's kind of Apples to Oranges, as most western boxers have no interest in MMA or Muay Thai- the difference in purses at the top of the game is staggering- whereas in MMA/MT getting $ 100,000 for the whole is considered almost top level. I know that's all that Jean Claude Leuyer made as a top level US superheavyweight. Compare that to the millions that Lennox Lewis makes. I know that 99.9% of the boxers wont get close to that kind of money, but that's what they are shooting for.
                            "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

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                              #29
                              Yet again? Are you keeping track of how many points you think I miss? Please send me my report card.

                              Anyway- maybe I don't really understand the question. A ring is a ring. If we are talking hands only, then it is hands only, even if it's a "MT" ring.

                              Are we not talking hands only?
                              The yet again was for the thread in general not you. We are considering hands only techniques. However, from a different viewpoint then usual. White's point is that: should MT and boxing (hand techniques are the only thing being considered) really be as comparable as some people try to make them. Even if you only talk about the hands aspect of the arts, MT still was made to deal with other things then just hands. It is NOT a hands only art. Its techniques were never designed to be used in a boxing ring (rules). Similarly boxing is NOT use to anything but hands. Its techniques were never designed to be used in a MT ring (under MT rules).

                              So hand techniques being the only thing we are considering, do boxing hand techniques still apply in an environment that is not hands only? We both know MT hands only techniques don't apply (atleast not near as well as boxing techniques) in a hands only environment.

                              I think the thing that is throwing some people off is the difference between techniques and environment. Hands only = techniques, environment = MT rules or Boxing rules. Usually when this is discussed its just people argueing over who is the better at hands only (techniques and environment) in which case... its the boxer.. duh.

                              That clear anything up or just make it worse?

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Shaolinz
                                I think the thing that is throwing some people off is the difference between techniques and environment. Hands only = techniques, environment = MT rules or Boxing rules. Usually when this is discussed its just people argueing over who is the better at hands only (techniques and environment) in which case... its the boxer.. duh.
                                Exactly. We all know Boxers are the better Boxers. It even sounds silly when you state it that way. BUT Is boxing the better hand strategy for MT?

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