February is "Karate Rules" Month

[Lennyfa]

Hey check this out Kempo Karate vs Sumo this is the power of Karate
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Jzqf8H5QnY

You've got to love a fighter whose only tactic is to grab you and obey gravity.

[patriotawake]

I have never understood why some MMA fans seems so keen to trash talk it.

I believe it's because so many of us have been raped by really bad karate that it's hard to look to the institution for guidance.

I never knew about kyokushin until I saw the movie, Fighter In The Wind.

I could not begin to tell you how confused I was when I found out that there are guys out there who practice "Karate" and they really try to hurt their opponents! I trained at a Mcdojo of sorts for a long time and I learned one day (the hard way) that I didn't know how to fight. Imagine that, you've trained hard and long and can beat the crap out of imaginary opponents, but finally one day when you really need the skills you thought you were training for, you have your ass handed to you by someone who is slower, weaker, and less trained than you.

It's like the Catholic Church preaching against sexual impropriety then suppressing the sexual abuse committed by many priests. They claim authority on one hand and fail that same authority on the other, in such a major way that it questions not only catholicism, but religion in general.

MMA fans understand this to one degree or another. Their only mistake is that they tend to throw the baby out with the bath water. Sure there are a lot of crappy dojo's out there. But if we could remember the root of the martial system, as I like to refer to it, than we can remember why it was there in in the first place.... TO KICK SOME ASS!!!!!!!!!!!

[kolsyrade]

OK. Ive posted a lot of kyokushin/knockdown karate related vids (Hey, kyokushin is what I do. Sue me!)
here are a few other trad full contact karate competition forms.

Bogu kumite.
Trad full contact, continuous fight rule system, using protective equipment, used by several of the most trad styles in japan. Rarely seen in the west.


(kenwa Mabuni. Karate legend and founder of shito ryu, wearing bogu armor, from the 30-40ies)

YouTube - Open Bogu 2008 Japan Renbukai Kurokawa Cup


Irikumi kumite. Trad gojuryu fighting system. Comes in Go (hard) and ju(soft) versions.
Go irikumi is basically continuous full contact fighting.
Very old school in japan. It used to be how all goju fighting was in japan, but was replaced almost to extinction by no/light contact point sparring. It has started to grow again only recently. Apparently, there are even competitions held with these rules in some goju organizations now.

YouTube - Goju-Ryu Irikumi

[kolsyrade]

Not very traditional competition format, but very common in Japan jnowdays (and uncommon in the west)
Gloved karate, aka shin Karate (shin=new).


YouTube - k-2 tournament 4times champion

[kolsyrade]

Another legend of karate.

Joe Lewis.
From 1971. Before karate, and esp. american karate, got watered down and wussified.

YouTube - Joe Lewis vs Wally Slocki

[kolsyrade]

old school JKA (shotokan) competition from 1974.
You could not KO, but otherwise they still required POWER in the hits or it would not count.
Not like today when contact is unimportant and its only about who touches the other first.
Note the single leg shoot at about 0.57, and the simulated knee to the head to the prone opponent at 1.22. Why dont we get to see that kind of stuff in JKA or WKF today??

YouTube - Shotokan Kumite

[kolsyrade]

just because I like them!
shin kyokushin 2007 world championaship

YouTube - Kyokushin 2007 WC


Shindokai (shidokan offshot -2nd generation kyokushin offshot) 2007 european championship.

YouTube - Karate full contact kumite

Shidokan HL (but to be honest, its a open tournament, and not all fighters in it train shidokan).

YouTube - Shidokan Highlight

[kolsyrade]

Last video post in this thread for me (unless I get worked-up/bored again).

The new breed of karate in japan

Shizuka Sugiyama from Zendokai karate (daido juku (see post 39 in this thread) offshot. 2nd gen kyokushin offshot. No relation to the australian karate style also called zendokai) vs Harumi in the first Jewel event (all female MMA event in japan that is replacing smackgirl).
Zendokai fighters are VERY commonly seen in japanese MMA now. I picked a cute girl as example. Hey, why not?

YouTube - 総合格闘技　空手道禅道会　杉山しずかｖｓＨＡＲＵＭＩ　ＪＥＮＥＬＳ


Same girl in a zendokai tournament (in the blue helmet)

YouTube - 総合格闘技　空手道禅道会　美人ファイター　伊藤めぐみｖｓ杉山しずか

[Mcdaddy]

Actually Sosia Mas Oyama was doing Full contact before Joe Lewis and he killed bulls. And all so in Okinawa they actually fight bare handed and hit hard in the face.

A Goju-Ryu Teacher said in a column in a Martial Arts Magazine about hes trip to Okinawa in the 80's said that Sparring would be two Karateka fight and punch and kick hard and in the end it would end up in as a Wrestling Match now thats what Karate should be realistic not point sparring.

[Mcdaddy]

Kempo Karate in Thailand its spoken in Thai but where here for the moves lol and also the Black belt trained under my Shihan and I also speak to the Black Belt as well

YouTube - Kenpo Karate Thailand

[Mcdaddy]

old school JKA (shotokan) competition from 1974.
You could not KO, but otherwise they still required POWER in the hits or it would not count.
Not like today when contact is unimportant and its only about who touches the other first.
Note the single leg shoot at about 0.57, and the simulated knee to the head to the prone opponent at 1.22. Why dont we get to see that kind of stuff in JKA or WKF today??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2CrGP6Mz_I

Wow never seen a Shotokan Karateka fight like that before

[Vieux Normand]

It can be framed in terms of general perception. The vast majority of people don't see the distinction between karate that produces great fighters and krottercise (or the various other "karate" that are preoccupied with interpretive dance, "spiritual development", etc.)

Alternately, it can be framed in terms of the schools themselves. What should be done about schools that claim to "do Karate" but don't produce competent fighters? I'd rather not phrase it like that, because 1) if someone enjoys krottercise, they should stick with it (as long as they're not lying to themselves about what they're learning) and 2) the most appealing answers are all variations on dojo storming.

Those of us who do not run schools or consider ourselves qualified to teach are somewhat on the outside if the decision-making process regarding what the schools do. Framing things in terms of "what has worked for me in my years as a bouncer" will--in most cases--close the ears of those krottercisers, who see individuals thus empoyed as thugs whose opinion is as bloodspattered as it is distant from the "Pure 'Do'". Accordingly--as standoffish as this sounds--I'll leave matters of what dojos do to those more active in dojo life (which I realize I should be, were there enough time in my schedule).

But in any case, the fundamental question is that of what to do about it.

If anything (being a cynical asshole again--sorry).

Normally I'd draw hope from the wave of karate practitioners who have been excelling in MMA competition, but in the case of perception, I worry that they may actually exacerbate the problem.

"My sensei says that karate isn't about fighting, but man, GSP does karate and he kicks all sorts of ass. I bet sensei's just being philosophical about it. I'll be a killing machine in no time."

Scary, no?

Only the "killing machine in no time" bit. The two sentences which preceded it are a reasonable start on a road that is--and should be--hard, but then that's a matter of perspective (remember, mine is pretty skewed).

Anyways, I suppose that we could buy some ad time...

Nice examples *pushups*. If and when I have the money, that goes straight-to-mass-media.

Well, time to sleep. I'll wake up in a few hours, read what I wrote just now, and probably delete it out of sheer embarrassment. Oh well. C'est la vie.

OSU!

[TheRuss]

Only the "killing machine in no time" bit. The two sentences which preceded it are a reasonable start on a road that is--and should be--hard, but then that's a matter of perspective (remember, mine is pretty skewed).

Damn it. When I pushed that one from my brain to the keyboard, I dropped some crucial exposition. How it should have read (changes in bold):

Normally I'd draw hope from the wave of karate practitioners who have been excelling in MMA competition, but in the case of perception, I worry that they may actually exacerbate the problem.

Imagine a dojo that focuses on krottercise/spirituality/interpretive dance/anything else that isn't fighting. The instructor is aware of this on some level, and tries to make sure his students are clear that their training is not designed to teach them to fight. In this case, driving home "karate = badass" without previously driving home "krottercise != karate" will actually undermine the teacher's attempts at full disclosure.

"My sensei says that karate isn't about fighting, but man, GSP does karate and he kicks all sorts of ass. I bet sensei's just being philosophical about it. I'll be a killing machine in no time."

[Scott Larson]

So for there to be a "rules" month, someone in the UFC has to destroy his opponent?

Its gonna be a long time untill kung fu rules month, unless there are some Sanshou guys coming up I don't know about.

[Mcdaddy]

Still I dont care what month a Martial Arts im still going to post videos of that style even though i dont practice it