Kokondo Karate, also does both, they have some sort of "Jujitso/Judo" as part of their training, so do several others, including in the USA, some Kyokushin-kai knock-offs, like Seido-kan. My own style, Jushindo, comes from Judo, and Kyokushin-kai/Enshin, with the Ju Do with Shin/heart/spirit/karate as the center of the Ju and Do, but utililizing the techniques, tactics, and philosophies of Judo.
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At the moment Ninomiya was a rising star in kyokushin knockdown competition.Originally posted by blugularis View Post
You cant be a top level competitor in japan without dedicating yourself to the sport completely.
Dont mistake that for not allowing and encouraging practitioners to crosstrain for other purposes at other times.Comment
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And he did the right thing, he also utilized the sabaki from Judo/Aiki/Jitsu, as you can see in even his third-place win/fight, and he has gone on to utilize the sweeps, etc. to turn Enshin into "true Judo."Comment
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I miss Karate, the instruction was good and methodical...
Plus the higher belts did ACTUALLY spa in a live way, not just pose about showing the fact they'd got a belt... which for a change, they didn't obtain simply by having a cheque that didn't bounce.
The reason I left was sadly down to practical reasons...
It was too dammed far to travel in the car and it was costing a small fortune in extra petrol...
It was not a wasted experience though, I did learn things which I can apply to the JJ classes I'm now attending.
If there was somewhere closer that I could be assured of getting the same sort of committed and effective tutoring in the mechanics of practical Karate.... :(
I would really give it some serious thought.
Know a few people would rather flay their own sexual organs with a wire brush than do something as 'boring' as stand up Karate as opposed to MMA, but like so many other disciplines and fighting systems....
If a school is helping develop people's ideas about training into something a bit more realistic than just 'dances with white pajamas' and actively testing them to see what they know (or think they know)... then, regardless of the core of the study... the results are usually worth the effort.
A good karate school is no exception to that (somewhat generic) statement.
Nice too see this ideology is acknowledged...Comment
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I agree, wholeheartedly, most folks can benefit, in more ways than one, from a quality karate program/dojo. Mind, balance, heart, lungs, bloodstream, bio-physio-chemistry.Comment
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Interesting you didn't put "fighting" there.Originally posted by blugularis View Post
I don't mind Karate, anyway. Some of the kicks are worth knowing.Comment
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Still fighting the good fight
I started Karate (good old basic Shotokan) in 1967. My first sensei was very traditional and it took 3 1/2 years to make Shodan. The sparring was harsh with pretty decent contact allowed to the body and light contact to the head. We hit the makiwara everday not, as some people believe, to "toughen our knuckles", but to develop penetration ( there was a small lead weight hung behind the makiwara that we were supposed to make the board hit - as we got better, the weight got moved back). We were taught not to EVER give up. Pain was viewed as instructive.
That being said, most modern Dojo drive me to despair. They teach "musical forms" for competition and their sparring is pathetic - a process I came to call "fag tag". There is no sense of Ikken Hisatsu - to kill with one blow. Everyone, it seems, is afraid of a lawsuit.
I've been a cop for over 30 years. I know what a fight looks like from the inside. And I mean a real fight. Not in the ring. On the street. I've studied a lot of martial arts over the last 40 years. Japanese. Okinawan, Chinese, Indonesian, Filipino, Western... . In every real fight, it's been the traditional Karate techniques and attitudes pounded into me by ny first sensei that got me through. And it's been the simple techniques that worked.
I recently had an interesting conversation with an MMA guy that rented space in a Uechi Ryu dojo.
I asked where the senior instructor was and he asked me for my background and I told him. He said "so...you don't know how to fight, huh?". I ignored him and continued the conversation with someone else and he repeated his comment. I finally looked at him and said "so, let me get this straight. You're saying that a martial art forged on the battleground and back alleys is somehow less authentic than you dressing up in spandex and rolling around on a padded floor?"
Not a lot of conversation after that.
He also said he took a TASER in the side of the neck and it didn't bother him. I've been TASED. It's like being dipped into Hell for 5 seconds. What a moron.
Any aart is only as good as the people practising it.Comment
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I started Judo in 1967 (after-school program), and Karate ten years later. Not Shotokan, but full-contact nevertheless. Much of what you write is familiar, and it formed the basis for every job I've had, from soldier to high-school PE teacher to bouncer (the latter job I've been doing, on and off, for about 25 years now). I'm only writing this so that, if and when the nutriders notice your post and come a-flaming, you'll be reminded that theirs isn't the only viewpoint on this forum--though they sometimes raise interesting points. Much of what went on before the advent of widely-available video technology will inevitably be called into question by those who've had this technology available since day one. Don't take personally what they may write. You'll either care what they say, or you won't. Karate has had a rough ride up until recently, but--for reasons we both know about, which you described in your post--it has, to a great degree, brought this on itself. Nevertheless, something that works for you is not subject to anyone else's approval. If it does the job, that's all that matters.Originally posted by lunghsing View Post
The one-blow fight-finisher is relatively rare in the circles in which many posters here train. They will assert that combinations are always necessary. A lot of them may not have been hit bareknuckle by someone who knows bareknuckle and has hands and wrists that are conditioned to overcome the hardness of the human head supported by the spine. I tend to train with combinations, just in case one blow doesn't finish matters. In my case, when one strike was made, it was generally all that was needed to take the fight out of whomever was causing trouble in my establishment. However, anything can happen, so combinations are necessary preparation.That being said, most modern Dojo drive me to despair. They teach "musical forms" for competition and their sparring is pathetic - a process I came to call "fag tag". There is no sense of Ikken Hisatsu - to kill with one blow. Everyone, it seems, is afraid of a lawsuit.
Just so you're forewarned, you may get a bit of flack from those who deride any comparison between "sport" and "street" when it comes to fighting. This sometimes comes as a knee-jerk reaction: totally automatic. Commonsense will tell us that getting thrown face-first into a parking-meter is likely to be nastier than getting dumped on a mat. However, individuals who teach some 'martial arts' have used "deadly-for-the-streets-too-deadly-for-competition" as an excuse not to put their ability to the test in sparring. Also, they speak of every square centimetre of sidewalk being covered with broken glass and HIV-infected needles as an excuse not to be involved in groundfighting. It is because of such charlatanry that non-sparring MAs get a rough ride here. Sport (even non-combative-aimed varieties such as Rugby) at least allows some full-contact striving against an adversary. This doesn't mean that sport is the ONLY way to live-train, but it is one of the more common (and more easily-verifiable via present-day video technology) ways to measure effectiveness. I write as one who trains for the job, not for trophies, but who has nothing against sportfighting (other than the fanboy retards who are attracted to it).I've been a cop for over 30 years. I know what a fight looks like from the inside. And I mean a real fight. Not in the ring. On the street. I've studied a lot of martial arts over the last 40 years. Japanese. Okinawan, Chinese, Indonesian, Filipino, Western... . In every real fight, it's been the traditional Karate techniques and attitudes pounded into me by ny first sensei that got me through. And it's been the simple techniques that worked.
Just so you know, some of the other bouncers where I work are MMA, they know my background, and we get along just fine. Yes, there are some chest-beating morons in every sport, but you'll also find considerable numbers of swelled heads in so-called "traditional martial arts" as well. Don't let one idiot sour you on an entire area of endeavour. Many MMA guys are great to train with, open-minded in terms of trying anything that might give them an edge in that rule-set, and willing to give pointers as well. There's nothing like sharing notes on what might make the job easier. Nearly fifty, I still get a kick out of learning new shit.I recently had an interesting conversation with an MMA guy that rented space in a Uechi Ryu dojo. I asked where the senior instructor was and he asked me for my background and I told him. He said "so...you don't know how to fight, huh?". I ignored him and continued the conversation with someone else and he repeated his comment. I finally looked at him and said "so, let me get this straight. You're saying that a martial art forged on the battleground and back alleys is somehow less authentic than you dressing up in spandex and rolling around on a padded floor?" Not a lot of conversation after that.
I did the taser course when working corrections a couple of years back. The metallic after-taste in the back of the mouth is still with me. Not nice...He also said he took a TASER in the side of the neck and it didn't bother him. I've been TASED. It's like being dipped into Hell for 5 seconds.Last edited by Vieux Normand; 4/06/2009 4:06pm, .Comment
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Shifting focus to the opposite corner, there's Lyoto Machida with a pristine record supported by enviable stats (highest strikes-landed percentage in UFC; shares prestige with Fedor Emelianenko for least amount of time spent on his back).
we got 5 ufc categories of which 2 of them have a solid karate base. Gsp in Kyokushin; Lyoto in Shotokan. not bad not badComment
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when being pushed on the street, strangelly two times in the past few years, I resort mostly to my kyokushin-kai and other training, DONT go to the ground, and DON'T let the guy get close enough, keep him away, if he comes in, stop him with a fore-arm push, then low kicks, jab, cross, low kick, and repeat, although a lapel grab, or sleeve grab, aka judo/enshin, has also helped to keep him spinning round and off balance.Comment
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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/23/sports/23karate.html
“There were so many karate instructors doing a disservice to their students,” said John Hackleman, a black belt in karate and the trainer of the former U.F.C. light heavyweight champion Chuck Liddell. “They were teaching moves that weren’t going to work in the streets.”
Elsewhere around the world, particularly in Europe and Asia, karate maintained a stronger reputation among fighters, in part because it was less commercialized.
“A green belt in Europe is the same as a fourth-degree black belt here,” said Bas Rutten, a Dutch-born black belt and a former U.F.C. heavyweight champion.
“Karate used to be a very tough sport,” said Georges St.-Pierre, a black belt in karate and the current U.F.C. welterweight champion. “Hopefully, the standard will be rising up.”
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Found some videos. Better late than never.Originally posted by kolsyrade View PostKestutis "Tiger" Arbocius
Shidokan karate (kyokushin offshot)
former HW king of Pancrase
(sorry, cant find any video online)
"Tiger" Arbocius in MMA
YouTube - Yasuaki Miura vs Kestutis Arbocius visit www.valetudo.lt
"Tiger" Arbocius in shidokan karate
YouTube - Kakutugi Festival 05 - Fight 1Comment
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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/NOL_n5APfg4...</param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/NOL_n5APfg4..._embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>Comment
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applied karate in mma - Kyokushin4life
in the middle
Alexandru Sorin from Romania
I screwed up the postComment
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how can you "screw up the post!?"Comment
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