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Bullshido made Kung Fu Black Belts: is this up to standard?

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    #16
    Ignorami is owning this thread.

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      #17
      I was sure that they were about to play rock paper scissors at 2:34.

      All in all it looked like the test was a hell of an accomplishment.

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        #18
        Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
        Ignorami is owning this thread.
        Well when you're right you're right.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Omega Supreme View Post
          I can't speak for the entire forum but I believe if Bullshido could give some criteria to what a "Black Belt" test might look like I believe this might be it.
          Not having studied any CMA (nor achieved a black belt in anything) I'm can't really comment on what a Kung Fu Black Belt test should entail (nor really any black belt test for that matter).

          However, the following elements tend to reflect my understanding of the Bullshido tenets and would/should form part of any test Bullshido would endorse, if we were miraculously able to avoid Ignorami's prescient conclusion:

          *Testing of conditioning as well as skill.
          *Testing of skills across all ranges of the style.
          *Pressure testing skills with aliveness against capable opponents.
          *Conducted by a suitably and verifiably qualified Instructor.
          2018 Male Purple Belt Adult No Gi
          #2 Ranked Competitor - QBJJC

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            #20
            Physical fitness test (work out for an hour before test time; again see video)
            Kicking proficiency
            Striking proficiency
            If it was me planning it, i think the fitness part should be separate and more measurable, like a certain time you need to come down from for a mile run, a certain push up, pullup number etc. Maybe add some crossfit oriented drills (like a combo of burpees sprints and pull ups needed to be done under 3 minutes). I would not do it on the same day, i would do it routinely and for a candidate for a black belt it should be clear what the level should be. He should pass those "tests" a few times a year and keep in good condition the entire year. You could also condition the application by being able to perform a full split and certain specialized physical abilities needed for a black belt.

            The striking proficiency part: I would like to see them punch and kick MT mitts, doing some planned combos, and having a round of improvised combos with some pressure from the holder (he attacks and presents freely). If the holder is one of the evaluatours he can asses the force and focus of the strikes first hand. The guys on the side can evaluate technique, leg work and reaction time to the target or threat presented.
            The sparring part is good, though if you had inter-club competitions, it could be better to give credit for participating and especially winning those matches.
            Bottom line a black belt in kung fu should be someone not to fuck with. I guess if you want to make some exceptions for women and youngsters you can compare them to their own demographics.

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              #21
              Nice but how many students passed it?

              I would assume all or at least most of them. That is the only thing not hard enough. You do this kind of testing when you are ready and already know that you will pass. You might have to do some challenging physical exercises but there is not real fear involved.

              I don't think there is a quick fix for that or anything, just an aspect to consider.

              Anyway, cool video, great school. Totally envious.

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                #22
                To me, there's only two things to be looking at: 1. can the candidate demonstrate the skills/concepts you expect at that level and 2. can the candidate execute those against another candidate of the same level.

                Everything else is just fluff. Hours-long tests with strenuous conditioning aspects are just an ego boost for the candidate.

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                  #23
                  Probably closer to what real MA training and testing used to be and was meant to be -- training that produces real fighters, not just income for the instructor. I particularly like the emphasis on physical conditioning. One question: what is Theoretical Defense Concepts and how was it tested?

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                    #24
                    I think it is really good. This is something that you will feel accomplishment for all of the years of training. And get you some bragging rights at the end. If you passed, you should be able to handle yourself in a majority of the ranges of a fight, if not all of them.

                    Anyone should be proud to obtain a blackbelt under this criteria.
                    Combatives training log.

                    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                    Drum thread

                    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                    "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

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                      #25
                      A black belt test that doesn't include a Long Island Aiki-jujutsu Kung Fu style "hunt" isn't worth anything in my book.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by CapnMunchh View Post
                        Probably closer to what real MA training and testing used to be and was meant to be -- training that produces real fighters, not just income for the instructor. I particularly like the emphasis on physical conditioning. One question: what is Theoretical Defense Concepts and how was it tested?
                        Theoretical Defense Concepts are static preset self defenses which teaches certain approaches to a given self defense, as opposed to realistic self defenses which the attacker is told to initiate with the attack without the defender knowing and react appropriately. For example a push- in a Theoretical we will declare we want to see a specific throw done off the attack with a specific finish.
                        Originally posted by NeilG View Post
                        To me, there's only two things to be looking at: 1. can the candidate demonstrate the skills/concepts you expect at that level and 2. can the candidate execute those against another candidate of the same level.

                        Everything else is just fluff. Hours-long tests with strenuous conditioning aspects are just an ego boost for the candidate.
                        Yeah, we tried it your way a few times. You sure you understand the concept of Bullshido?

                        Originally posted by killface View Post
                        Nice but how many students passed it?

                        I would assume all or at least most of them. That is the only thing not hard enough. You do this kind of testing when you are ready and already know that you will pass. You might have to do some challenging physical exercises but there is not real fear involved.

                        I don't think there is a quick fix for that or anything, just an aspect to consider.

                        Anyway, cool video, great school. Totally envious.
                        Those candidates are still waiting for the results. I hate those type of tests. I mean, why even bother calling those tests? Those are more like "Graduations."

                        Originally posted by erezb View Post
                        Physical fitness test (work out for an hour before test time; again see video)
                        Kicking proficiency
                        Striking proficiency
                        If it was me planning it, i think the fitness part should be separate and more measurable, like a certain time you need to come down from for a mile run, a certain push up, pullup number etc. Maybe add some crossfit oriented drills (like a combo of burpees sprints and pull ups needed to be done under 3 minutes). I would not do it on the same day, i would do it routinely and for a candidate for a black belt it should be clear what the level should be. He should pass those "tests" a few times a year and keep in good condition the entire year. You could also condition the application by being able to perform a full split and certain specialized physical abilities needed for a black belt.

                        The striking proficiency part: I would like to see them punch and kick MT mitts, doing some planned combos, and having a round of improvised combos with some pressure from the holder (he attacks and presents freely). If the holder is one of the evaluatours he can asses the force and focus of the strikes first hand. The guys on the side can evaluate technique, leg work and reaction time to the target or threat presented.
                        The sparring part is good, though if you had inter-club competitions, it could be better to give credit for participating and especially winning those matches.
                        Bottom line a black belt in kung fu should be someone not to fuck with. I guess if you want to make some exceptions for women and youngsters you can compare them to their own demographics.
                        Thank you for letting us know you're also a misogynist along with being a racist.

                        Anyway you really want to know the break down?

                        Adult lead up:
                        100 push ups
                        100 jumping jacks
                        100 burpees
                        5k 30 Minutes
                        Day of:
                        10 stadiums
                        100 jumping jacks
                        100 burpees
                        100 meter fireman carry
                        100 meter wheel barrel
                        50 push ups on knuckles
                        If finished before 30 minutes you must do jumping jacks until that time.
                        4K run, every time you had to stop you must do burpees.
                        If person arrives at gym before hand they had to do squats with their weight on the squat cage.

                        Junior:
                        50 burpees
                        50 meter grappling exercises (shrimps, bear crawls, various falls)
                        1600 meters 8 minutes
                        50 push ups
                        100 jumping jacks
                        10 plyo jumps at waist level
                        100 kicks both legs.
                        (These were done during lead up and the day of. Lead up these exercises were spread out. Day of they had to do them all within the hour.)

                        I think the fact they had to fight fresh experienced fights during their test after training for nearly 8 hours is okay.

                        As of the focus mit/thai pads. Really? I edited that out. It's kind of boring to watch.



                        I think some of you are confusing the point of this post. I didn't say "My style". I always thought Bullshido was looking for a standard.
                        I physically examined my candidates
                        I tested them on knowledge
                        I tested them under pressure

                        Fortunately for me I wasn't naive enough to believe that it wouldn't receive a degree of criticism. I've been part of these boards for over 11 years. This is the stuff I thought we talked about. We've argued about forms/kata over alive training. We've talked about real sparring. Gathered on the testing panel were 10 instructors not part of our system. Several of which are long time members of these boards.

                        I wanted my students to be proud of doing this test. They are. I've done my job. As for this site I guess Ignorami definitively called it.

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                          #27
                          The only standard I personally look for is that people be truthful about what they're doing/selling.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by CrackFox View Post
                            The only standard I personally look for is that people be truthful about what they're doing/selling.
                            We understand that you're trying to be an asshole. You've been successful, now how about you just go run along and play with your Legos?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Have fun Omega, I'm out. This is going to get ridiculous before it gets better. I was going to trollshido Ignorami's post, but I waited because I knew he was right.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
                                I think it is really good. This is something that you will feel accomplishment for all of the years of training. And get you some bragging rights at the end. If you passed, you should be able to handle yourself in a majority of the ranges of a fight, if not all of them.
                                Anyone should be proud to obtain a blackbelt under this criteria.
                                I'll go further than that. This testing model represents a major step up from what has been the usual 15 minute, do a few katas, break a couple of boards type of black belt test that has become altogether too common in MA. This model of testing not only provides a more accurate assessment of MA ability, because it is so rigorous it serves as an ordeal or initiation process, so a student can feel that he has acomplished something special, has become a mature member of his school, and has truly joined the ranks of accomplished martial artists.

                                Originally posted by Diesel_tke View Post
                                I think it is really good. This is something that you will feel accomplishment for all of the years of training. And get you some bragging rights at the end. If you passed, you should be able to handle yourself in a majority of the ranges of a fight, if not all of them.
                                Anyone should be proud to obtain a blackbelt under this criteria.
                                I'll go further than that. This testing model represents a major step up from what has been the usual 15 minute, do a few katas, break a couple of boards type of black belt test that has become altogether too common in MA. This model of testing not only provides a more accurate assessment of MA ability, because it is so rigorous it serves as an ordeal or initiation process, so a student can feel that he has acomplished something special, has become a mature member of his school, and has truly joined the ranks of accomplished martial artists.

                                Comment

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