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    Rashed evans bjj bb

    http://www.gogoplata.com/2010/01/02/...jj-black-belt/

    i just say this and have to say... wow.

    and this

    http://www.fighters.com/01/03/the-ri...aningless-belt

    #2
    Does Rolles have a history of giving out fake blackbelts?
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      #3
      First of all let me be honest and say I'm not a Rashad fan. Honestly he's one of my least favorite fighters and I was hoping that Silva was going to knock his ass out.

      That being said I don't see a problem will Rolls awarding Rashad a black belt, if he feels he really deserves it. You can call Rashad's belt "fake", but the only people that can be sure are people that have rolled with him.

      As an instructor I've always felt the belts were about having the skill, not how many years you put in, whether or not you jumped through the proper hoops, etc.

      If Rashad can hold his own rolling against the "typical" BJJ black belt, which I have no doubt he can, he should have the belt.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Punisher View Post
        If Rashad can hold his own rolling against the "typical" BJJ black belt, which I have no doubt he can, he should have the belt.
        I disagree. First, we have no idea whether Mr. Evans can hold his own against other BJJ black belts with the gi on. I would argue that it is a requirement to be able to compete successfully against others of similar rank with the gi to be ranked in BJJ. Maybe he can, maybe he can't. I don't know.

        What I do know is that Mr. Evans has never demonstrated any high level grappling ability beyond wrestling in any of his MMA matches. I've never seen him pull off a sweep from guard, or a reversal from bottom that looked like jiu-jitsu. However, I frequently miss fights so I could be wrong here.

        While I'm hesitant to question Rolles Gracie's judgement, I note Renzo has done so already in the article Random Triangle linked to.
        Shut the hell up and train.

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          #5
          This is where we cue up BTO's "You ain't seen nothing yet". The proliferation of honorary, fake, meaningless and/or unearned BJJ BBs has only just begun (maybe we should cue up The Carpenters). I can remember the TKD explosion back in the seventies. There were very few TKD BBs and the ones there were usually competed, sparred hard after hours at their clubs and had some demonstrable skill. Ten year old BBs and BBs who couldn't kick above their own knees were unheard of. Despite the best efforts of the BJJ community as a whole to maintain the integrity of the belt ranking system the cracks are beggining to show and its only going to get worse.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Vorpal View Post
            Despite the best efforts of the BJJ community as a whole to maintain the integrity of the belt ranking system the cracks are beggining to show and its only going to get worse.
            Agreed, this is only going to get more prominent as years go on.

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              #7
              maybe we should point out, that to this day there aren't many fake Judo BB (that I know of, I could be wrong), so maybe things won't get as bad as people think.

              Comment


                #8
                The thing that bugs me most about this, is that it seems like it has everything to do with business and nothing to do with jiu-jitsu. Rolles and Greg Jackson are now linked up, and all the sudden Rashad has black belt level jiu-jitsu...interesting and amazingly convenient.

                Rashad has a great many talents and skills, but even from my low-level experience viewpoint I've yet to see anything close to top level BJJ from him. In all honesty, I'm trying to remember ever seeing him use anything other then fresstyle wrestling when it hits the mat.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Iainkelt View Post
                  In all honesty, I'm trying to remember ever seeing him use anything other then fresstyle wrestling when it hits the mat.
                  Layin' on a dude is fresstyle wrestling?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Hesperus View Post
                    Layin' on a dude is fresstyle wrestling?
                    When it comes to MMA it might be true. Even ground and pound is a skill that needs to be developed when a wrestler goes to MMA and I can't think of a single submission that is part of freestyle wrestling.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mike321 View Post
                      When it comes to MMA it might be true. Even ground and pound is a skill that needs to be developed when a wrestler goes to MMA and I can't think of a single submission that is part of freestyle wrestling.
                      Randy Couture's 1st 2 fights in the UFC ended with a submission victory for him (if I'm not mistaken, haven't seen them in a while) and he was JUST a wrestler. he did say in a later interview (not a quote just how I remember it) "I think all wrestlers basically know how to choke someone".

                      It could also have something to do with the simple fact that Randy is devine.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by jnp View Post

                        While I'm hesitant to question Rolles Gracie's judgement, I note Renzo has done so already in the article Random Triangle linked to.
                        Renzo questioned Rolls judgement in giving Rashad the belt in the locker room before the fight, not in giving him the belt itself.

                        Renzo correctly points out that in order for Rashad to compete at the highest levels of no-gi BJJ tournaments, he has to be awarded a black belt by a certified instructor.

                        I couldn't find confirmaiton of this, but I read in another forum that Carlos Gracie Jr. recently announced that the IFBJJ will be instituting no-gi equivalent rankings to allow grapplers without gi training to compete in no-gi BJJ tournaments. They do have to be recommended by a certifed BJJ instructor 2nd Dan or above.

                        I have to believe these two are events are related. Either Rolls knew the policy change was coming and awarded Rashad his no-gi eqivalent a little early or IFBJJ made the policy change to prevent more BJJ black belts being awarded to people without gi skills. I don't know.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jnp View Post
                          I disagree. First, we have no idea whether Mr. Evans can hold his own against other BJJ black belts with the gi on. I would argue that it is a requirement to be able to compete successfully against others of similar rank with the gi to be ranked in BJJ.
                          Originally Posted by Vorpal
                          Despite the best efforts of the BJJ community as a whole to maintain the integrity of the belt ranking system the cracks are beggining to show and its only going to get worse.
                          If you want put limits and restrictions on what "real" BJJ is and what it means to have a legitmate ranking that's fine with me.

                          IMO, such restrictions will be harmful to the integrity of the ranking system and the art in the long run.

                          Each qualifier an art has to add to make their ranking more specifc and exclusionary is one more step down the path of bullshido.

                          It starts with restricting BJJ ranking to grappling skill with a gi. That leads to restricting it to grappling a particular way while wearing a gi, supplmented by competition rules that encourage people to favor certain strategies and/or techniques regardless of their effectiveness outside that particular ruleset.

                          Soon you get to the point where ranking requirements stop being indicative skill and instead become what whoever is in charge at the time's idea of what should be needed to obtain and/or sufficently prove that skill, i.e. minumum time requirements, winning a specified number of matches at specific list of approved tournaments.

                          Each step of the way you pose the risk of excluding people with superior combative skills from ranking, simply because they haven't filled out all the boxes on a the approved checklist yet. The common argrument is that is better for 100 qualified people to not get their rank than one unqualified person to recieve one.

                          You eventually get to the point where the ranking is so specfic it loses all meaning outside that particular art and people interested in developing combative skill cease to seek ranking in your art altogether.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Punisher View Post
                            If you want put limits and restrictions on what "real" BJJ is and what it means to have a legitmate ranking that's fine with me.

                            IMO, such restrictions will be harmful to the integrity of the ranking system and the art in the long run.

                            Each qualifier an art has to add to make their ranking more specifc and exclusionary is one more step down the path of bullshido.

                            It starts with restricting BJJ ranking to grappling skill with a gi. That leads to restricting it to grappling a particular way while wearing a gi, supplmented by competition rules that encourage people to favor certain strategies and/or techniques regardless of their effectiveness outside that particular ruleset.

                            Soon you get to the point where ranking requirements stop being indicative skill and instead become what whoever is in charge at the time's idea of what should be needed to obtain and/or sufficently prove that skill, i.e. minumum time requirements, winning a specified number of matches at specific list of approved tournaments.

                            Each step of the way you pose the risk of excluding people with superior combative skills from ranking, simply because they haven't filled out all the boxes on a the approved checklist yet. The common argrument is that is better for 100 qualified people to not get their rank than one unqualified person to recieve one.

                            You eventually get to the point where the ranking is so specfic it loses all meaning outside that particular art and people interested in developing combative skill cease to seek ranking in your art altogether.
                            What?

                            BJJ originated utilizing the gi and putting emphasis on non-compliant competition. If anything, I'm arguing to keep the requirements exactly the same as they have always been.

                            My personal opinion is that an accomplished practitioner of BJJ, regardless of rank, should be able to compete equally well with the gi on as well as without. They should also have a comprehensive knowledge of all the basic submissions and some that are not so basic.

                            I dislike speculating, so I will wait until more information regarding Mr. Evans BJJ skills are revealed before I form an intelligent opinion in his case.
                            Shut the hell up and train.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Punisher View Post
                              Renzo questioned Rolls judgement in giving Rashad the belt in the locker room before the fight, not in giving him the belt itself.

                              Renzo correctly points out that in order for Rashad to compete at the highest levels of no-gi BJJ tournaments, he has to be awarded a black belt by a certified instructor.
                              You are correct. I read this:
                              and mistakenly attributed it to Renzo rather than the author of the article.
                              Shut the hell up and train.

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