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Teaching other martial artists: Pros and cons humerously stated

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    Teaching other martial artists: Pros and cons humerously stated

    dsimon writes:

    For more than a few years now I have been available to anyone who really wants to make the effort, however my forte, the people whom I am in the market to serve have been other martial artists with an average of about 5-10 years experience... some more some less.

    This group is a seperate demographic with their own needs, quirks, etc. IK know some of the other teachers will run into a few of these guys. Anyhow we had a laugh about beginners... what about the characters who are crazy enough to still be training after all these years as students... what motivates these crazy fools? I sure wouldn't have wanted to be the guy at heaven's gate next to mother teresa when she passed Snt Peter: "Mother Teresa lets see you unselfishly helped others come on in... and you sir? whats that you say you studied the science of beating people with and without weapons for your entire life?"

    Anyhow I will start here are a few colorful characters:

    1) The Gypsy....... We called em martial arts gypsies for many reasons. Like a beautiful Gypsy lady they are passionate, flawless in their honed abilities to the eye of the teacher, they are...... hopelessly uncommitted and want to be the person who pushes your system one day and are gone the next.

    I think that Gypsies are vital. they essentially live by Lee's creed, to train the way they see fit and to train in many styles. A good Gypsy might be one of those guys that I would decide to walk down a dark alley in the worse part of town with... why not? a good gypsy has sparred, can utilize from a variety of sources, etc.

    I have one gypsy in my class who is also a dear friend.... he actually trained with one of my teachers moons ago. Need I say that he is cute and fuzzy an' smart and yes its nice to hear him participate, to see his ability to grasp and hold on to the subtleties, to hear his compliments, etc. When he dissapears for a while so be it.

    My solution is to treat a gypsy like I would a fling *(when I was single) which is to say enjoy them, love them, make them a part of the landscape of the class but don't pin a gypsy down!

    2) The wizened oldster Kung Fu guy. This guy is around sixty something, teaches all day and comes to class every week. What can I say? wisdom abounds... along with that wisdom comes attitudes, baggage, and advice for how to deal with intelopers... whether needed or not haha. This guy can be a control freak and will sometimes ask me the same question a million times.. maybe it is me but I just deal with it and appreciate the wisdom. I know thats a cop out right? What can I say I like the guy and if I am still doing this at 65 I am sure I will do the same thing.

    Kung Fu guy makes sure everyone pays for class and will often call out any "persian or Incan, or Aztec, or Egyptian martial arts masters....
    This is a great service to the dojo and a riot in the true Bullshido tradition. "Hey Darrell get out there this here guy says he does Persian stuff it looks like kick boxing to me though." Ha ha hahahhaha

    3) The insecure guy. These guys are pretty damn good. I mean its been a few years now and hey! Despite this they still have yet to cross the border into the land of "fuck it this is what I can do when I need to, I will test it refine it and use it when appropriate" no these guys just don't really know yet. They tend to love weapons (on average) get into altercations at times and have some self esteem issues. I treat em like wayward children. I don't judge them, rather tend to subtley direct them and to point out to them when they are getting it. Hey some of these guys are fabulous martial artists which is kind of scary if you think about it. They can be at times perfectionists also which is interesting.....

    4) The perfect student. I am waiting for this guy to come into my class, something tells me I might be waiting a while.... I do have my guys who have been very muc`h influenced by me and I do see character and ability combined with these traits described. ...

    So what kind of experienced martial artists do some of you guys deal with? Any parity with my experience?
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

    #2
    I'm the argumentative student, my old boxing coach was fed up with my constant questions. :icon_geek But I needed to know why and how in the most intricate details, and was passionate about technique. He developed me has a long range defensive stylist, then a few years later I got into a new city and a new boxing club, and now the coach was all about infighting and big knockouts so I kept arguing that elusive-defensive was better for me and did not listen to him at all :icon_mrgr I guess I'm a sifu-sensei-coach's nightmare

    Teri Tom's books explore every technique in the tiniest details, and she is the type of teacher I would have liked to have.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Osaka peach View Post
      I'm the argumentative student, my old boxing coach was fed up with my constant questions. :icon_geek But I needed to know why and how in the most intricate details, and was passionate about technique. He developed me has a long range defensive stylist, then a few years later I got into a new city and a new boxing club, and now the coach was all about infighting and big knockouts so I kept arguing that elusive-defensive was better for me and did not listen to him at all :icon_mrgr I guess I'm a sifu-sensei-coach's nightmare

      Teri Tom's books explore every technique in the tiniest details, and she is the type of teacher I would have liked to have.
      Well questions about subtle technical details are to be expected when you work with people who have been training a while. If a teacher cannot answer those questions then she/he might consider teaching on a more basic level.

      The stubborness I get you are refering too is different. I don't know OP the truth is I always take that affectionately. Yes my old guy asks me questions over and over, yes he will sometimes interrupt to do so... And yes I would be well within my rights to say "you are interrupting me! write down the answer this time!" but its just not my style. I just love to see when they start to get better and they are not even aware they have progressed!
      This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

      The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

      Comment


        #4
        Every class has a: bully, the what iffer, and the know it all.
        I had the privilege of taking the bully to town and making him cry....ooops :p.
        I was a what iffer when I first started, "what if the guy grabs my left wrist instead of my right." When my neighbor was a teacher he had a student who wouldn't shut up and he said, "you know what you are right how about we spar for a bit." he just socked him in the gut, the student got the picture.
        The know it all has 2 sub groups. The know it all who doesn't have a background, and the know it all that does have a background and always brings it up. In my wing chun classes I had too with Ironically the same name. I called them kempo ken, and Aikido ken.

        Comment


          #5
          I have experience with the truly devoted student that does everything for competition wants to learn everything and try everything with a passion that is unbelieveable. This student is serious but respectful he is also able to do well in sparring against black belts. This student also enjoys teaching others and usually finds a strength in everybody's sparring technique. In my TKD class I was the grabber,grab the foot,grab the arm,grab about anything I could to take the advantage away from these quick young guys kicking at me. I am thinking about taking judo or akki-jujitsu next I might be the hitter in a grappling art.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
            Well questions about subtle technical details are to be expected when you work with people who have been training a while. If a teacher cannot answer those questions then she/he might consider teaching on a more basic level.
            I agree if it is a problem occurring with mutliple students. With one? No. what I found was every once in a while you came across a student that knew everything.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
              Every class has a: bully, the what iffer, and the know it all.
              I had the privilege of taking the bully to town and making him cry....ooops :p.
              I was a what iffer when I first started, "what if the guy grabs my left wrist instead of my right." When my neighbor was a teacher he had a student who wouldn't shut up and he said, "you know what you are right how about we spar for a bit." he just socked him in the gut, the student got the picture.
              The know it all has 2 sub groups. The know it all who doesn't have a background, and the know it all that does have a background and always brings it up. In my wing chun classes I had too with Ironically the same name. I called them kempo ken, and Aikido ken.
              Devil Boy! the "ball of anger thrower" ha! IIIII don't do bullies... its funny you mention em because I see them in other people's classes and I have had a few no it alls, but I never got stuck with the bully. That would ring my siren though. It would be go time. No it alls are great you just have to give them a project when they are particularly in the mood. Like show the wall how to doa round kick... seriously they can work well with those who have fallen behind.
              This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

              The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                I agree if it is a problem occurring with mutliple students. With one? No. what I found was every once in a while you came across a student that knew everything.
                ah yes the know it all. The know it all is part of the landscape... my favorite know it alls are the guys who believe that because a kata addresses an attack and they have learned a lot of katas they will persevere against the attack in real time. Technique collectors they are sometimes called also.
                This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

                The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Im not an instructor, but I find it amusing watching our Judo Coach (Current 93kg National Champion), listening patiently while being corrected on his te guruma by a self confessed TKD Master.

                  Always amusing.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by sainthamish View Post
                    Im not an instructor, but I find it amusing watching our Judo Coach (Current 93kg National Champion), listening patiently while being corrected on his te guruma by a self confessed TKD Master.

                    Always amusing.
                    The late Rodney Dangerfield walked up to Mike Tyson, whom at the time had two giant body guards that dwarfed him at his table and said:

                    "Mike if anyone bothers you let me know."
                    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

                    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I was just talking about this kind of humer with a friend/former student yesterday (he lives to far to train with me now).

                      I have a little diverse fun group of guys I train/train with...we all compete in different type of events (nothing serious though) and train very hard at times. Overall they are all fairly skilled and getting better...I could make it long but here's the breakdown.

                      -Guy from India with no flixibility
                      -Black dude with no rythem
                      -ammy mma dude (with a win!!) who admits he can't fight, 6'5' 260...gets drunk on one beer.
                      -Very religious christan (ammy boxer/mma)...who loves to fight.
                      -And two fat white dudes with off the hook cardio.

                      A whole group of paradoxes...I love em all!!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Ahhhh, the know-it-all. He who shows up to two months of classes, and tells the upper belts how to do the throw properly. Heh. My instructor in Alaska used me as muscle to humble a know-it-all without my knowledge. We played a little on the ground until I got tired of being there, and tapped him before he quite knew what hit him.

                        There were also a few in classes I like to term the "almost wunderkind". Great potential, good technique, learns quickly... and for whatever reason, can't get it through their head that the only way they'll improve is by learning more and working harder.

                        "You have to show up more, and train harder."

                        "But I'm already better than all these guys!"

                        "But you're not better than me."

                        And then, even after I proved it, still wandered off to the beat of their own drum. I think a lot of that is simply a lack of maturity, which is what you'd expect from a young 'un.

                        I, myself, am the gypsy. I keep moving from place to place, and from style to style by necessity. I likes it. Right now, the classes I'm teaching are so small, and so full of beginners, that no one's really sorted themselves out into anything but "rank beginner". At least they have fun.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          In my experience, the "know it alls" won't learn from getting beat up, because their delusions prevent it. They'll always make up some excuse to save their ego.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Scott Larson View Post
                            In my experience, the "know it alls" won't learn from getting beat up, because their delusions prevent it. They'll always make up some excuse to save their ego.
                            Spoken for truth...especially if it's the instructor who dishes out the humbling. They will just rationalize the instructor is "supposed" be able to do that...but I can beat everyone else.

                            These guys need loses in competition agianst their pers...I've seen it help some people, but a lot just never compete again and turn into mini Phil Elmors:BangHead:

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by thorthe power View Post
                              Spoken for truth...especially if it's the instructor who dishes out the humbling. They will just rationalize the instructor is "supposed" be able to do that...but I can beat everyone else.

                              These guys need loses in competition agianst their pers...I've seen it help some people, but a lot just never compete again and turn into mini Phil Elmors:BangHead:
                              Or complain about ear grinds.

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