(MABS incubator) Windsong Aikido & Judo?

[1point2]

I found a dojo that bears looking into, but it's not ready for MABS just quite yet. I was hoping to get things started here then move it to MABS when we have something.

Does anyone know anything about the Windsong dojo in Oklahoma City? Apparently they're with Karl Geis in some fashion. It came up in this judoforum thread: http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=42700 (see page 3 or so) in the context of their videos being questionable.

Looking at their website is troubling:
http://www.windsongdojo.com/
specifically,
http://www.windsongdojo.com/judo/judo_req.html

Promotional Requirements
Sandan Black 1185 3 years
Yondan Black 1635 3.5 years
Godan Black 2235 4 years

Even cumulatively, that's 14 years to godan. What!? Other tidbits:

They say some OK things, and they say some strange things. My alarms go off when they say "yeah, we do randori and shiai and kata...but only intermediate judoka do randori....":
http://www.windsongdojo.com/judo/judo_kata.html

In addition to our study of Gokyu No Waza we also study kata, randori, and shiai. The kata are a formal, pre-arranged series of techniques used as a teaching tool to understand the principles. In randori judoka at an intermediate level throw or grapple in a free-form, open setting as a practical application to the learned techniques. Shiai consists of all out competitive match as used in tournaments.

And I haven't taken a good look yet, but isn't it weird that their discussion board has over a dozen forums...not one of which is related to randori or shiai?
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=37

Then there's the fact that nearly every one of their posts, from multiple students, mentions the fact that they aren't that steenkin' competitive judo!
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...hp?f=38&t=1001
http://judoforum.com/index.php?showtopic=42700&st=36

To jump-start the technical analysis -- I have not viewed much yet:
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...04b20eeff1be3c
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...04b20eeff1be3c

What's the deal? Where did they originally get judo rank? What do they actually do? Are there Bullies nearby who can visit? I'm trying to figure out what I think about a judo school that doesn't really do randori or shiai. Other than that they're misguided and ruining the whole point, of course. It's kind of like the BJJ school that MrBadGuy found that didn't roll--it's still BJJ, but WHY GOD WHY?

More later when I get back from...judo.

[Ben Grimm]

As somebody who has limited experience in Judo (6 months), Aikido (3 months) and Haedong Gumdo (Korean Way of the Sword - Trans. Eastern Sea Sword Way) (2 years) which I know is not Iaido, but does have Iai techniques in every form. Nor does my limited experience make me an authority in any of these arts, but from my limited sword experience, something about the Iaido section doesn't click either. I'd be very interested in that as well.

[battlefields]

Am I allowed to make fun of it?

[Ben Grimm]

Of their school? I don't see any reason why not.... But that's just me.

[Larus marinus]

http://www.windsongdojo.com/judo/judo_req.html

Isn't 1.5 years to shodan rather on the 'too fucking low' side?

[Ben Grimm]

My thoughts exactly.

[Larus marinus]

It's the same with his Aikido (though it implies that you can earn it in one)
http://www.windsongdojo.com/aikido/ai_req.html

1.5 years is too short for any art, IMO - even those which are not highly-regarded on this forum.

Is he also saying that he can rank up to Hachidan in Aikido - for "continuing positive service to Kaze Uta Budo Kai, its members and ideal?" It would seem that way from my reading of it.

Note that Kaze Uta Budo Kai appears to be his own system:
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/

[Ben Grimm]

And in Jodo you only need one year. I swear it's a bigger McDojo than Go Kan Ryu.

[Larus marinus]

And in Jodo you only need one year. I swear it's a bigger McDojo than Go Kan Ryu.

I do suspect that any rank earned in the three arts offered here will have little or no value outside of the Kaze Uta Budo Kai system itself...

[Ben Grimm]

I couldn't agree more. And there martial skills (or lack of) may get them hurt or killed.

[battlefields]

Windsong is stupid. Thank you.

[SaintHamish]

Windsong is stupid. Thank you.

Similiar thoughts at this point.

[1point2]

No Okies?

Nobody knows Karl Geis?

Shit, I gotta do my own legwork.

---

If anyone with judo credentials could take a look at their technical stuff, it would be appreciated. For instance, it's only nagekomi, but:
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...p?f=111&t=1245

Hey, I was wrong: there are more fora.
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3/index.php

For instance, this is very interesting. Parts of it ring very true, and parts are...well, you tell me.
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3....php?f=3&t=691

[Larus marinus]

No Okies?

Nobody knows Karl Geis?

Shit, I gotta do my own legwork.

So, I've just been browsing their forum. Yes, it's as I thought WRT to their rankings...

http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...php?f=3&t=1220

Windsong Dojo is a completely independant martial arts school which issues its own ranking credentials -- though several of our members, myself included, hold very significant rank with UJSA, and any of our members are free to join any ranking organization that they choose (Usja, Usji, Usjf -etc.), no one will ever be required to join any outside organizantion; consequently, the dojo is not a sanctioned club. In accord with our independant status, our ranking standards and criteria are our own and are not based upon the the modern competitive point system, but rather reflect the traditional values and methods of our dojo and the lineage of training we derive from.
If our members choose to pursue competition then dojo members should be advised that joining one of the national sanctioning organizating may be required by the tournement officials before you are allowed to participate and your rank may or may not be recognized.
Such are the vagueries of the national and regional systems that Greg Ables, one of our most long standing members and well recognized as one of the top competitiors of the state and the region in the 80's and 90's spent several years competing as a white belt in local tournements. His winning record eventually convinced the local officails to recognize the legitimacy of his dojo rank.

[1point2]

Yeah, I saw that. Meh. Makes me wonder what that "very significant rank" is, and what org it came from.

Explicit statement that while yes, they'd get their ass kicked against actual judoka...they're prepared for the STREETS which are somehow different please don't ask them how specifically the streets are different just trust that they are.
http://www.kazeutabudokai.com/phpBB3...hp?f=49&t=1478