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Knife disarming.Systema seminar with Mikhail Ryabko in Moscow

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    #76
    Originally posted by Rafael View Post
    Which brings us to the origin of the matter:
    You behave like an obnoxious idiot.
    People more experienced than you tell you: "Don't".
    You, listening to your gut and clinging to the concept of self-conscience that you have built up about yourself, think: "Do."

    The point is, stuff like "fortune favors the bold", or, "you can do it, as long as you have visions" doesn't qualify here. Fighting skills are not a matter of opinion, and there are not "many ways leading to Rome". Rather than the style you choose, other things are important.

    Watch this video, AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0760833041053#
    That other Systema guy apparently is a knife instructor! I bet you have no knife experience at all! JUST SAYING. :5baby:

    I totally agree with your video but its the gym itself not the martial art.

    I will see if the Systema does Alive training.
    Last edited by devilboy7778; 1/04/2010 7:03am, .

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Rafael View Post
      People more experienced than you tell you: "Don't".
      Ahem ...

      Hearken to the words of DdlR, who has experience seeping out of his aged pores, and has actually trained in Systema ...

      DevilBoy, stick to your guns and to your commitment to testing the system/instructor. Most importantly, *ask questions* if you don't understand the purpose of a particular drill, or see how it fits in with the rest of the curriculum. I've seen too many talented people take a few classes, become baffled by the unusual drills and drop out; I truly think that the tendency for some Systema instructors to shrug and say, "maybe they'll get in eventually", while probably a very Russian attitude, is also a Systemic weakness.

      I wouldn't normally recommend Systema to someone of your relatively tender years, because (IMO) it was actually designed as a sort of post-graduate training method. I definitely think that it *works* best for people who have considerable and extensive prior experience in a range of styles. Personally, I use it as a combat improv. workout and a chance to pressure test my stuff under unusual conditions.

      However, I've recently seen a guy come into a Systema class with no MA background at all and stick it out for 6 months, which is quite unusual at the school I'm training at now. No false modesty, I think he had a breakthrough in a class just before Christmas, in which I stepped in for the instructor and took the time to explain some of the whys and wherefores. Now that he gets it, rather than just taking it on faith and going through the motions, he's making good progress.

      So anyway; take some classes, be prepared for some very unusual drills, and ask your instructor *why*. Then test it within the bounds of safe training. If you like it and you find it works for you, all good; if not, all good.
      Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

      Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by DdlR View Post
        I wouldn't normally recommend Systema to someone of your relatively tender years, because (IMO) it was actually designed as a sort of post-graduate training method. I definitely think that it *works* best for people who have considerable and extensive prior experience in a range of styles. .
        What use is a system that only works, or as you put it, works better for people who are already accomplished in other styles? To echo your metaphor, why should I pursue undergrads in karate, kung fu, and wrestling (to use generic terms, and assuming the training is live and effective) only to switch to something else? Why would't I just stick with
        the arts I already have "considerable and extensive prior experience" in?
        Sticking with the college analogy, who would enroll in, for example, a law school if the dean told all prospective students, "Our program is really only useful to students with degrees in algebra, comp lit, poli sci, and philosophy"?

        Comment


          #79
          That's a good question, and the answer is also the reason why I don't normally recommend Systema training for beginners or intermediates.

          IMO it serves the same function as any other post-graduate program - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postgraduate_education . Personally, I've found that Systema directly addresses a number of areas that my prior training in other styles only touched on tangentially, for example:

          * specific training drills for "surviving technical failure", as I mentioned earlier in this thread; what happens when the "technique" doesn't work.
          * conditioning exercises that systematically address the psychological as well as physical effects of pain and fear; heavy emphasis on breathing, relaxation, efficient biomechanics.
          * a pervasive strategic emphasis on the ability to improvise; drills that specifically require the practitioner to work intuitively, to be open to chance, incident and even accident in the heat of a fight.
          * scenario-based training in protecting third parties from attack, fighting in different/unusual environments (cramped spaces, etc.); very heavy emphasis on multiple-opponent scenarios.

          Obviously, I'm not saying that any of this is unique to Systema, just that it's the only training method I've ever found that actually starts with these types of pressure-test drills and develops from there.
          Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

          Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

          Comment


            #80
            Systema has interesting concepts I also like. I remember my neighbor telling me about how if you notice when someone walks up to you you can sometimes feel anxious or threatened. They have different trains of thought and breathing techniques that can over come things like that.

            Comment


              #81
              DdIR, I don't know what your previous MA experiences are, but I'm surprised Systema was the first you found these points in...

              Anyway, with all respect, my review of your points:
              Originally posted by DdlR View Post
              * specific training drills for "surviving technical failure", as I mentioned earlier in this thread; what happens when the "technique" doesn't work.
              The best method of dealing with a "failure of a technique" is to be able to retry or continue with a different technique seamlessly. This is taught by sparring.

              * conditioning exercises that systematically address the psychological as well as physical effects of pain and fear; heavy emphasis on breathing, relaxation, efficient biomechanics.
              Dealing with pain and fear, with heavy emphasis on breathing, relaxation and efficient biomechanics is taught by sparring and sparring only. No breathing drill can substitute the experience of facing a resisting opponent, period. No psychological training can prepare you for a punch in the face as good as an actual punch in the face, period.

              * a pervasive strategic emphasis on the ability to improvise; drills that specifically require the practitioner to work intuitively, to be open to chance, incident and even accident in the heat of a fight.
              Guess what - taught by sparring (didn't mention "and competing" after each "sparring" as I assumed we're talking about total newbs here).

              * scenario-based training in protecting third parties from attack, fighting in different/unusual environments (cramped spaces, etc.); very heavy emphasis on multiple-opponent scenarios.
              I've experienced similar in Krav Maga, but unless we're speaking of ARMED protecting of third parties, these drills are pretty useless. Too much emphasis on multiple-opponent scenarios tends to show lack of understanding of the importance of mastering the one on one scenario.

              Dboy,
              ...They have different trains of thought and breathing techniques that can over come things like that.
              No, they don't.
              It's not "trains of thought", whatever that is, that make you lose your fear and get used to fighting - ...that's right, only fighting does that.

              CLICK & WATCH
              :
              I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

              "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
              " - by Vorpal

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                Systema has interesting concepts I also like. I remember my neighbor telling me about how if you notice when someone walks up to you you can sometimes feel anxious or threatened.
                You remind me of a young Phil Elmore.

                They have different trains of thought and breathing techniques that can over come things like that.
                So does therapy.
                =================
                Kama Sutra blue belt.

                Originally posted by Emevas
                I used to fuck guys like you in prison.
                Originally posted by Rock Ape
                Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

                Dipshit

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Tonuzaba View Post
                  DdIR, I don't know what your previous MA experiences are
                  34 years with no significant breaks, including TKD, amateur wrestling, Aikido, Hapkido, kickboxing, old-school shoot wrestling, various FMA, longsword/rapier and dagger fencing, Bartitsu, numerous misc. styles. I was a fulltime self defense instructor during the 1980s (full contact padded attacker/scenario based training) and have been teaching MA at the international level for about the past fifteen years.

                  but I'm surprised Systema was the first you found these points in...
                  Originally posted by DdlR
                  Obviously, I'm not saying that any of this is unique to Systema, just that it's the only training method I've ever found that actually starts with these types of pressure-test drills and develops from there.
                  Cutting to the chase, we spar all the frickin' time in Systema classes. Some classes are basically 1.5 hours of solid sparring, at intensities varying from slow and co-operative to full-speed/full-resistance, depending on who you're working with and the nature of the skills you're working on.

                  The difference, as I've pointed out so very many times in prior incarnations of this same tired discussion, is that Systema sparring is entirely geared towards self defense. Sparring is used as a self defense training tool, not as a means unto itself, and the only rule is "try not to hurt your training partners too badly". In over three decades, I've seldom so regularly felt bad for hurting training partners, and I've never been so consistently bruised up myself.

                  The sheer irony of this "Systema lacks 'aliveness'" myth is kind of stunning. Yes, I know why it's there; Systema sparring seldom resembles kickboxing or more orthodox MMA sparring, although sometimes it very much does. When seeing those aspects of the training in an online vid., the typical response from people who haven't ever actually trained in Systema is "they're just copying SAMBO/BJJ/whatever", which reveals much more about the limited experience and perspective of the viewer than about what they're watching.
                  Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                  Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Well, wouldn't it be better for "The system" if videos of what you speak made it to the internet, rather than this stuff or stuff like troopa?

                    Of course, I am still wondering why NO ONE even heard of this system until the "KGBeast" used it on Batman in the comics.

                    Every military book I have says Sambo is the go to h2h form for Russian Military. Never heard of or read anything about this, until after said comic book.

                    I know you are VERY supportive of your training, why else would you do it? However, you are never going to get your points across until things like Troopa, claims of "Psychic Warfare," and that Batman problem are addressed.

                    Then, it would be nice to see something that shows what you are talking about, rather than swinging two women around and oddly a dozen men fall down without touching them.
                    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Mtripp View Post
                      Well, wouldn't it be better for "The system" if videos of what you speak made it to the internet, rather than this stuff or stuff like troopa?

                      Of course, I am still wondering why NO ONE even heard of this system until the "KGBeast" used it on Batman in the comics.

                      Every military book I have says Sambo is the go to h2h form for Russian Military. Never heard of or read anything about this, until after said comic book.

                      I know you are VERY supportive of your training, why else would you do it? However, you are never going to get your points across until things like Troopa, claims of "Psychic Warfare," and that Batman problem are addressed.

                      Then, it would be nice to see something that shows what you are talking about, rather than swinging two women around and oddly a dozen men fall down without touching them.
                      I believe the reason why we are hearing about it now is because it was forbidden to teach it to foreigners. i.e. the guy who was assassinated probably because he was teaching. Of course systema doesn't have many videos out but most of the sparring I see with them is no gloves and just brawling. They do advertise badly. THAT BEING SAID you have to see it first hand which I am trying to do even though I kinda already have.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Comrade, you need to understand that the Systema people changed their stories on mutliple occasions. First it was an ancient Russian warrior art hidden by the monasteries, then it was a super secret agent art used against Batman, then they had psychic powers, now it's just wavy combat.

                        I had my "OMFG Systema is the best thing since a tub of vodka and a 3 way with Kournikova and Margaret Thatcher." I still have my dvds and shirts, but come on... if you are told that previous MA experience might be a problem, and real non-compliant videos are hard to come by... and psychic powers are going to develop as a result of your training (despire James Randi still being rich) you figure out the rest.
                        =================
                        Kama Sutra blue belt.

                        Originally posted by Emevas
                        I used to fuck guys like you in prison.
                        Originally posted by Rock Ape
                        Dude I kill people for a fucking living.

                        Dipshit

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                          Systema has interesting concepts I also like. I remember my neighbor telling me about how if you notice when someone walks up to you you can sometimes feel anxious or threatened. They have different trains of thought and breathing techniques that can over come things like that.
                          Tell them to get some balls

                          P.S. pretty sure systema is the next wing chun, people have Teh Suckstema and people having all out balls to the walls sparring sessions with AK47s and shotguns and swords, we will get promised videos that will never turn up and apparently you have to be a fucking hardass in another martial art allready.

                          G.T.F.O!
                          Last edited by Franco; 1/04/2010 4:03pm, .

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                            I believe the reason why we are hearing about it now is because it was forbidden to teach it to foreigners.
                            Holy shit! Now that's a new one!

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Mtripp View Post
                              Well, wouldn't it be better for "The system" if videos of what you speak made it to the internet, rather than this stuff or stuff like troopa?
                              Over the past 5 years or so I've posted many, many clips of Systema people sparring in ways that are more likely to be understood as sparring by a few more people on this board. You can look them up if you feel like it.

                              Of course, I am still wondering why NO ONE even heard of this system until the "KGBeast" used it on Batman in the comics.
                              No-one? Really? More to the point, are you seriously suggesting that Systema was named after a reference in a Batman comic book?

                              Really?

                              Every military book I have says Sambo is the go to h2h form for Russian Military. Never heard of or read anything about this, until after said comic book.


                              Really?

                              I mean, how do you imagine that happened? Were Kadochnikov and Ryabko sitting around in their treehouse circa 1988, reading up on the latest black market Batman comic from the capitalist dog USA, when inspiration suddenly struck? "That KGBEast, he is a machine, da? Hey, Mikhail, let us name our fighting after what it is he does! We will make a million rubles!"

                              I know you are VERY supportive of your training, why else would you do it? However, you are never going to get your points across until things like Troopa, claims of "Psychic Warfare," and that Batman problem are addressed.
                              Well, when you finally did manage to get some excerpts from Troopa online, I was fascinated and even offered, several times, to co-ordinate a translation project, so we could find out what was being said on the video (instead of, y'know, jumping to conclusions based on guesswork). Unfortunately, I never heard back from you on that; you mostly seemed to be disappointed that your thread hadn't created as much of a splash as you were expecting.

                              For general reference, here's the thread:

                              http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...ghlight=Troopa

                              I'm afraid that I can't bring myself to take the "Batman problem" seriously enough to bother addressing it ...
                              Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                              Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                              Comment


                                #90
                                DdlR,

                                I think you are a fantastic Bullshido member. I'm more of a browser than an active poster, but I often read your interesting posts on a variety of topics.

                                Having said that, I also believe that regardless of what a Troopa translation could reveal, you would continue to create justifications and excuses for the what appears to be a clear case of soviet style chi ball flim flam.

                                But, by all means, translate it. There have to be Russian speakers around here somewhere.

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