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Knife disarming.Systema seminar with Mikhail Ryabko in Moscow

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    #61
    Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
    :5butthead
    Okay, then, since I apparently got your attention,
    let's leave the bad cop out a sec.

    I don't want to be funny, I want you to lighten up.

    [Drama voice:] "Shit like that will get you killed when you try to use it."

    - Because, yeah, it will. Because it doesn't work in the vast majority of the cases.

    It's not about you loosing your e-reputation, or having to give in to me or whomever, it's about you wasting your time, your money and your energy on stupid and useless shit.

    Reading your posts, I get the feeling that you haven't seen a lot. Maybe you're young. Which would be good. Because that would give you the time to correct the mistakes you are about to make.


    As to you and your pals playing UFC in your backyards: Yeah, every now and then someone shows up who knows a bit. Like one or two basic techniques he's trained for a while and that you don't see coming. Of course, he is the King of the Hill for a day. What about asking yourself not how you learn to be the King, but what you would need to beat someone like him?
    www.childsplaycharity.org

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Rafael View Post
      Okay, then, since I apparently got your attention,
      let's leave the bad cop out a sec.

      I don't want to be funny, I want you to lighten up.

      [Drama voice:] "Shit like that will get you killed when you try to use it."

      - Because, yeah, it will. Because it doesn't work in the vast majority of the cases.

      It's not about you loosing your e-reputation, or having to give in to me or whomever, it's about you wasting your time, your money and your energy on stupid and useless shit.

      Reading your posts, I get the feeling that you haven't seen a lot. Maybe you're young. Which would be good. Because that would give you the time to correct the mistakes you are about to make.


      As to you and your pals playing UFC in your backyards: Yeah, every now and then someone shows up who knows a bit. Like one or two basic techniques he's trained for a while and that you don't see coming. Of course, he is the King of the Hill for a day. What about asking yourself not how you learn to be the King, but what you would need to beat someone like him?

      I am young and havent seen much. I have been threatened a lot at my school by guys who are in jail now. Idk how old you are because it doesnt say but now that we are on the subject what have you honestly seen. That wasn't meant to be a smart ass remark either.

      I would def consider my systema experience second hand. But what I am trying to get from it more then knife fighting is how to hit and receive a hit.

      With the fighting with my friends it was more of a chance for everyone to get their feet wet. What we were trying to do was learn theory too not just techniques. I think I actually learned the most from those fights with my friends, 1 I found out that WC didn't work (HA hopefully my sifu never reads this) 2 I found out that I go back to my boxing training and 3 I really learned what getting knocked out was like.

      I get what you were trying to do and I'm sorry if I came off as being a jerk but I'm thinking Systema is going to be my martial art. What I was shown and seen is deff what I'm looking for. Of course the stuff looks kinda sketchy but there are going to be a lot of the top instructors giving seminars including Kwan Lee (the guy in that knife video) If I have the nuts to ask him (which I might do for you guys) I will try to pressure test his knife fighting skills.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post

        I get what you were trying to do and I'm sorry if I came off as being a jerk but I'm thinking Systema is going to be my martial art.
        Don't make snap judgments .

        What I was shown and seen is deff what I'm looking for.
        People tend to see what they want and hope to see .

        Of course the stuff looks kinda sketchy
        No, not "of course" man . There is no need to expect things to look hokey and compliant .

        but there are going to be a lot of the top instructors giving seminars including Kwan Lee (the guy in that knife video) If I have the nuts to ask him (which I might do for you guys) I will try to pressure test his knife fighting skills.
        Right ... you don't see a problem with this logic ?

        People who are trained to deal with knives ( out side of the system in question ) are saying the approach and methods applied are bullshit ... but you think the video was good ... and now you want to to judge it first hand in the lions den surrounded by supporters .

        Originally posted by DdlR
        ...It's a knife familiarization drill, assuming the worst case scenario that you don't have control over the knife hand; thus, that you will get cut, and are attempting not to get cut fatally. Think of it as situation-specific harm reduction, rather than prevention.
        that is not harm reduction ... What he was showing was how to put yourself in harm's way . If you can pass or parry a knife / knife hand you can attempt to control and lock it down .

        The bigger picture is that Systema training is based on trial-and-error pressure testing and improvisation, rather than a set curriculum of techniques. You start off soft and slow, and gradually move harder, faster and more realistically. During that process, the airy-fairy stuff drops away and you end up with a high percentage, flexible set of self defense skills.
        So you start off with convoluted empty shit and try to figure out what works ? Wouldn't it be easier to just train in an established art with a good track record NOT full of hocus pocus , magic healing strikes , and bad training methods ?

        :5huh:
        I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
        BILL HICKS,
        1961-1994

        "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
        ---Jean-Paul Sartre

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by Christmas Spirit View Post
          that is not harm reduction ... What he was showing was how to put yourself in harm's way . If you can pass or parry a knife / knife hand you can attempt to control and lock it down .
          Yes, you can attempt to do that. Your attempt may succeed, or it may fail. Part of the point of this drill is to train to survive failure.

          So you start off with convoluted empty shit and try to figure out what works ? Wouldn't it be easier to just train in an established art with a good track record NOT full of hocus pocus , magic healing strikes , and bad training methods ?
          Yous should try not to put words into the mouths of others in this sort of discussion. It's bad tactics, because your opponent can easily point out what you're doing, which damages your credibility.

          I've been training in and teaching all sorts of established arts with good track records, for about thirty-three years. Systema works fine, especially for advanced folk who want to break out of their personal boxes and pressure-test; IMO that's what it was actually designed for. I don't recommend it for beginners, unless they're prepared to commit for the long haul.
          Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

          Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

          Comment


            #65
            Putting words in your mouth ?


            Originally posted by DdlR View Post
            The bigger picture is that Systema training is based on trial-and-error pressure testing (1)and improvisation, rather than a set curriculum of techniques (1) . You start off soft and slow, and gradually move harder, faster and more realistically (2) . During that process, the airy-fairy stuff drops away and you end up with a high percentage (3), flexible set of self defense skills .
            Originally posted by Me

            So you start off with convoluted empty shit (1) (2) (3) and try to figure out what works (1) (2) (3) ? Wouldn't it be easier to just train in an established art with a good track record NOT full of hocus pocus , magic healing strikes , and bad training methods (1)(2)(3)?
            I bolded and numbered the points I was referring to in your quote and matched them up with mine .

            I just didn't sugar coat it .
            I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
            BILL HICKS,
            1961-1994

            "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
            ---Jean-Paul Sartre

            Comment


              #66
              I guess one man's "sugar coating" is another's "voice of experience".
              Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

              Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                :5nuclear:
                You're mistaken.

                Don't look for something that will raise your self-esteem, or for people that like you. - Look for efficiency in your actions, and once you get better at what you're doing, self-esteem and good people will come by themselves.

                When it comes to fighting, that means "don't train shit".
                www.childsplaycharity.org

                Comment


                  #68
                  A lot of the Systema stuff you see online is bad advertising of what they are all about. And the fact of the matter is we all have to try something out to see for ourselves if it is good or bad.
                  I know I am going to be able to judge Systema just fine. If it looks like shit when I'm there and they do teach a lot of that healing punch stuff then I wont continue. A lot of Systema isn't about that stuff (by a lot I mean most of it and I talked to the guy who runs the school and he doesn't do that stuff).
                  They have a lot of good theories that I believe I can value off of but again I'm not looking into knife fighting anyways, I'm looking for hand to hand combat.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Look, boy, if you want to do Systema because you like to,
                    noone is going to stop you.

                    However, doing something because you want it does not mean
                    it's the best thing to do rationally.

                    Accepting that - and making up your mind -
                    is what will get you the things you want.
                    www.childsplaycharity.org

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                      Look, boy, if you want to do Systema because you like to,
                      noone is going to stop you.

                      However, doing something because you want it does not mean
                      it's the best thing to do rationally.

                      Accepting that - and making up your mind -
                      is what will get you the things you want.
                      True but I have all the time in the world to make up my mind. Im just going to try Systema thats all and if I like it I'll stick to it. They have a lot of good things I believe I can benefit from. If in like 2 months of it I don't learn anything then I'll probably go to a Muay Thai gym or something.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Why waste the 2 months? Muay Thai will give you plenty of conditioning and you'll be able to absorb hits because you take hits. I've seen "The System" in use first hand in Australia. I was at a friend's house and his housemate was talking about how great Systema is. His instructor came by for a private lesson and let my friend and I watch. The "instructor" couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Really, it's just a cult.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Alright Grimm why do Wing Chun either? Or try any style out? Just because that instructor is bad I'm sure that doesn't mean the whole thing is bad. I know of a lot of bad WC instructors and a lot of good ones. I've already done Muay Thai and I think its great but I want something new.
                          And really is two months that bad? I dont think so. I think it is a perfect amount in seeing if something is worth while. And I will give a bullshido promise not to drink the kolaid unless I start to see improvement in myself when I fight.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                            Alright Grimm why do Wing Chun either? Or try any style out? Just because that instructor is bad I'm sure that doesn't mean the whole thing is bad. I know of a lot of bad WC instructors and a lot of good ones. I've already done Muay Thai and I think its great but I want something new.
                            And really is two months that bad? I dont think so. I think it is a perfect amount in seeing if something is worth while. And I will give a bullshido promise not to drink the kolaid unless I start to see improvement in myself when I fight.
                            Which brings us to the origin of the matter:
                            You behave like an obnoxious idiot.
                            People more experienced than you tell you: "Don't".
                            You, listening to your gut and clinging to the concept of self-conscience that you have built up about yourself, think: "Do."

                            The point is, stuff like "fortune favors the bold", or, "you can do it, as long as you have visions" doesn't qualify here. Fighting skills are not a matter of opinion, and there are not "many ways leading to Rome". Rather than the style you choose, other things are important.

                            Watch this video, AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND:

                            http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...0760833041053#
                            www.childsplaycharity.org

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Devilboy, you sure are a hard nut to crack...

                              Rafael, you deserve a Patience tag...

                              I admit I didn't read all your replies as I got the feeling you're repeating yourself... But what on Earth is this:
                              Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                              ...I've already done Muay Thai and I think its great but I want something new...
                              What do you mean by "done MT"?

                              This is not working like the movies, "I've seen Avatar" now I know what it's about... Neither is it like with food - I've tasted sashimi, I know what it's like.

                              You either keep working hard on something to achieve certain level of understanding/competence/experience or you don't.

                              You either DO Muay thai (or any MA, naturally), which means you train and compete regularly or you simply DON'T.

                              Also, please don't post anymore until you've done your Systema trip - do it, "evaulate" it, try it out against people NOT from the Systema gym, THEN come back and let us know, preferrably with video.

                              Thank you and good luck.

                              CLICK & WATCH
                              :
                              I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

                              "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
                              " - by Vorpal

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Tonuzaba View Post
                                Devilboy, you sure are a hard nut to crack...

                                Rafael, you deserve a Patience tag...

                                I admit I didn't read all your replies as I got the feeling you're repeating yourself... But what on Earth is this:


                                What do you mean by "done MT"?

                                This is not working like the movies, "I've seen Avatar" now I know what it's about... Neither is it like with food - I've tasted sashimi, I know what it's like.

                                You either keep working hard on something to achieve certain level of understanding/competence/experience or you don't.

                                You either DO Muay thai (or any MA, naturally), which means you train and compete regularly or you simply DON'T.

                                Also, please don't post anymore until you've done your Systema trip - do it, "evaulate" it, try it out against people NOT from the Systema gym, THEN come back and let us know, preferrably with video.

                                Thank you and good luck.
                                Yeah I plan to. And I used to train Muay Thai at Degerberg's in Chicago. :la:

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