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Knife disarming.Systema seminar with Mikhail Ryabko in Moscow

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    #46
    Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
    No I don't have a crush on the Christmas spirit. I was just saying no it isn't is as bad as saying is too. Ninjutsu is pretty bad though (commenting your last post)
    I am about to try out some Systema classes myself so I will report back to you guys about the knife fighting.
    If you do not have COMPLETE control over the weapon arm you will get cut the fuck up . Try any of that bullshit with a buddy .

    Take a sharpy ( magic marker ) and pretend it is a knife . Post pictures of the results and video of it going down . Then we can talk about this knife defense shit .

    Knives do not rely on power generation like striking does . You just have to lay the cutting edge or point against the skin . Knives are even more difficult to manage than magic markers because only the tip of a marker leaves a mark .
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994

    "Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past."
    ---Jean-Paul Sartre

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
      No I don't have a crush on the Christmas spirit. I was just saying no it isn't is as bad as saying is too. Ninjutsu is pretty bad though (commenting your last post)
      I am about to try out some Systema classes myself so I will report back to you guys about the knife fighting.
      Stupid n00bish son of a bitch troll!!!

      For...

      ...Not getting the "push ups" in-joke.

      ...Defending a system you haven't even tried.

      ...Looking at this dipshit crap video and thinking "hey, that looks nice".



      Look, this is the problem with those so-called combat systems:

      People who have never before been into a real fight or even touched a weapon, they are summoned to play cowboys and Indians in t3h r34l d34dl1.

      While I have no problem with people defending shitty boxing and shitty grappling, this shit makes me really angry.

      You do this bullshit in a situation where on threatens you with a gun, a knife or a bat, and you get seriously injured or killed.

      So, devilboob, *lighten uuuuuuuuup*.
      Last edited by Hiro Protagonist; 12/30/2009 7:49am, .
      www.childsplaycharity.org

      Comment


        #48
        I have been working on a paper on martial art context. For my own reasons I am not going on with the project, but I would like to put a small part of it here.

        The current fad of "combatives" also falls short under the light of context. In truth, the problem with psuedo-military combative programs is that the materials taught will either not work, or they will.

        Most Military Hand to Hand combat systems were created to instill "fighting spirit" not create deadly fighters. I find it odd our Modern Army is so fond of BJJ, yet they do not learn it, or train in it, with full web belts and gear that would prevent the material from working in most cases.

        Also, the average person is not in the shape of a modern military member. If you are planning on "fighting like a navy seal" doesn't it stand to reason you should be able to pass the Navy Seal PT test?

        On the other side, what if it does work? Well, using Fairbairn as an example, his program was created under the context that the other person is trying to kill you so you must kill him. His chin jab to tiger claw, to rear takedown, to several blows to the eyes will likely work....

        ...and you will get many more chances to work on these skills in prison.

        Context, or perhaps more correctly premise, is "WHY AM I TRAINING?" What is the core goal you wish to get from your training? If it really is effective self-protection, then a solid foundation in LEGAL personal protection devises, with on going training in the martial sport of your choice will always be the better bet than psuedo-military or "ninja" or "mystic martial art" programs.
        "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Rafael View Post
          Stupid n00bish son of a bitch troll!!!

          For...

          ...Not getting the "push ups" in-joke.

          ...Defending a system you haven't even tried.

          ...Looking at this dipshit crap video and thinking "hey, that looks nice".



          Look, this is the problem with those so-called combat systems:

          People who have never before been into a real fight or even touched a weapon, they are summoned to play cowboys and Indians in t3h r34l d34dl1.

          While I have no problem with people defending shitty boxing and shitty grappling, this shit makes me really angry.

          You do this bullshit in a situation where on threatens you with a gun, a knife or a bat, and you get seriously injured or killed.

          So, devilboob, *lighten uuuuuuuuup*.
          Woah there peace and love buddy boy. Lets open up those pill bottles and take that pill you forgot.
          While I understand a lot of what you are saying and agree with holding the arm, thats not the only form of knife defense.
          -I have been in a real fight before
          -I doubt you've been in a knife fight. Neither have I but the fact you are talking like you are a pro at knife fighting and know so much. I mean you are talking like you have your own school here.
          -I have had some Systema training just not with an instructor.

          P.S. Sorry I didn't like your shitty push up joke

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Christmas Spirit View Post
            If you do not have COMPLETE control over the weapon arm you will get cut the fuck up . Try any of that bullshit with a buddy .

            Take a sharpy ( magic marker ) and pretend it is a knife . Post pictures of the results and video of it going down . Then we can talk about this knife defense shit .

            Knives do not rely on power generation like striking does . You just have to lay the cutting edge or point against the skin . Knives are even more difficult to manage than magic markers because only the tip of a marker leaves a mark .
            Do you know where that video is of the guys doing this. I actually really liked it I just cant find it for the life of me. I know someone posted it on bullshido.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Rafael View Post
              Sorry, this looks like stuff I used to make up when I had my shot at Ninjutsu. Which means that you are probably better off stealing moves from video games than doing Systema.




              If you actually know where this pic is from BECAUSE you were there and played it,
              you are probably awesome.
              the final battle from my favorite zelda game of all time. I received it for chrismas when I was 9 years old, a gift from my late uncle who introduced me to martial arts when I was little. Great memories and nostalgia :XXbunny:

              too bad I never really liked the 3D zelda games.

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                Woah there peace and love buddy boy. Lets open up those pill bottles and take that pill you forgot.
                While I understand a lot of what you are saying and agree with holding the arm, thats not the only form of knife defense.
                -I have been in a real fight before
                -I doubt you've been in a knife fight. Neither have I but the fact you are talking like you are a pro at knife fighting and know so much. I mean you are talking like you have your own school here.
                -I have had some Systema training just not with an instructor.

                P.S. Sorry I didn't like your shitty push up joke
                You know, that's the point. I couldn't care less about what you're doing.

                You think you're gonna go far with this? - Okay, the best of luck. I hope you don't get killed. Because, sticking to systema, and so on, odds are you will.
                www.childsplaycharity.org

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                  the attacks in this video are not realistic. the attacker is never committed nor does he do himself any favour by attacking overhead, a move commonly seen in hollywood and nowhere else lol

                  also, if you look at the slow motion replay of the first attack, you see that the attacker doesn't fully commit to the stab and withdraws the knife immediately after the instructor reacts. this must be due to some form of psychological conditioning which causes him to unknowingly become a compliant training partner. this phenomenon is common in martial arts dojos. whereas a real attacker is fully committed and doesn't withdraw under pressure.

                  here is a good video demonstrating COMMITTED knife attacks. i can't say if the defences are the best, but the ways in which they attack are definately realistic

                  YouTube- Realistic Knife Defence Training

                  and

                  YouTube- Realistic Knife Scenarios
                  Last edited by mrman; 12/30/2009 8:51pm, .

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Rafael View Post
                    You know, that's the point. I couldn't care less about what you're doing.

                    You think you're gonna go far with this? - Okay, the best of luck. I hope you don't get killed. Because, sticking to systema, and so on, odds are you will.
                    Youre just one big ball of anger. Besides you do Muay Thai (Which is great for hand to hand) I doubt you have ANY knife experience at all. If Systema seems like bullshit when I test the instructor there then I wont do it. And if you could careless I'm glad you didn't respond to it *cough*
                    :nike:

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                      Youre just one big ball of anger. Besides you do Muay Thai (Which is great for hand to hand) I doubt you have ANY knife experience at all. If Systema seems like bullshit when I test the instructor there then I wont do it. And if you could careless I'm glad you didn't respond to it *cough*
                      :nike:
                      devil boy... did you just call someone a big ball of anger? That is so..... cute. I wish I could think of a better word. :icon_geek
                      This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

                      The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
                        devil boy... did you just call someone a big ball of anger? That is so..... cute. I wish I could think of a better word. :icon_geek
                        HA I've learned that the best way to make someone more mad is to say cute things.:icon_wink

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                          Youre just one big ball of anger. Besides you do Muay Thai (Which is great for hand to hand) I doubt you have ANY knife experience at all. If Systema seems like bullshit when I test the instructor there then I wont do it. And if you could careless I'm glad you didn't respond to it *cough*
                          :nike:


                          Yeah, because as long as noone tells us that our believes are bullshit, anything we believe is real!!! Right? Right!



                          Again, so I understand you right?

                          - You have no experience with systema, and so far judge and defend the style based on what you see on video? (which in the case of systema is really a hard thing to do, because almost all videos out there look mentally and physically gifted.)

                          - You base your opinion on what you have read and seen in this thread? (!!!)

                          - You claim unspecified fight experience and go to the classes to "test" the instructor?

                          Darn, I so hope you're not a troll, because this is like a field study on stupidity.
                          www.childsplaycharity.org

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by Rafael View Post


                            Yeah, because as long as noone tells us that our believes are bullshit, anything we believe is real!!! Right? Right!



                            Again, so I understand you right?

                            - You have no experience with systema, and so far judge and defend the style based on what you see on video? (which in the case of systema is really a hard thing to do, because almost all videos out there look mentally and physically gifted.)

                            - You base your opinion on what you have read and seen in this thread? (!!!)

                            - You claim unspecified fight experience and go to the classes to "test" the instructor?

                            Darn, I so hope you're not a troll, because this is like a field study on
                            stupidity.
                            I actually do have experience with systema. A student of the teacher would try teaching me things sometimes. What does that mean? He would explain to me what the theories were, showed me how to absorb/ throw punches.
                            I never based my opinion on what Ive read on this site. You kinda I think are trying to rearrange my words with the I'm going to the classes to "test" the instructor.
                            First you act like I do it on a regular basis which I dont
                            Second- you act like I've done it already
                            THIRD- what I am doing is when we do knife drills he will def show me what he is talking about and I will let him know I will go full force. I've done that to my last teacher Mr.Mendosa at Degerberg and he complied and almost broke my arm HAHA.

                            NOW YOU
                            You claim to know knife/gun defense by saying that, "you do this bullshit in a situation where on threatens you with a gun, a knife, or a bat, and you get seriously injured or killed."

                            You jump to conclusions and nit pick on little things. You haven't mentioned your fighting. I can tell you mine now. I have never been in a tournament but have sparred since 12. This includes boxing, Muay Thai, Chi Sao, JiuJitsu. Also lately me and a grop of friends practice full force sparring. So in conclusion you are a hypocrite.

                            THIRDLY you are not funny/ have a fast temper, and after a rant starting with STUPID N00BISH SON OF A BITCH TROLL!!!! end with *lighten uuuuuuuuuup* Possible joke but its not because im dumb that I didn't get it. It's because you are not funny and I guess tried to use sarcasm but did it wrongly.

                            P.S. you are a know it all and it shows that you know this by the title Master Smarty Pants

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by devilboy7778 View Post
                              I actually do have experience with systema. A student of the teacher would try teaching me things sometimes. What does that mean? He would explain to me what the theories were, showed me how to absorb/ throw punches.
                              Getting occasional second-hand instruction from a student (novice? advanced?) doesn't constitute "experience" in any meaningful sense.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Just when you think you're out, they drag you back in ...

                                I'm focused on other things right now, so very briefly, in the OP video Ryabko isn't demonstrating a set of self defense moves. It's a knife familiarization drill, assuming the worst case scenario that you don't have control over the knife hand; thus, that you will get cut, and are attempting not to get cut fatally. Think of it as situation-specific harm reduction, rather than prevention.

                                The bigger picture is that Systema training is based on trial-and-error pressure testing and improvisation, rather than a set curriculum of techniques. You start off soft and slow, and gradually move harder, faster and more realistically. During that process, the airy-fairy stuff drops away and you end up with a high percentage, flexible set of self defense skills.
                                Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                                Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

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