Acting based on ignorance, is pure stupidity.

[AriesKai]

This like so many other CQB type programs is designed to teach a lot of recruits quick and easy hand to hand fighting. I have taught PPCT at the police academy In Indianapolis. These types of programs are not comprehensive. especialy the Military versions. soldiers fight with guns. Don't you get tired of the old "he was a navey seal, he'll kick your ass." statments? Sure he will with an MP5. I think for what they are, a supliment to modern military tactics, they are fine. To sell it as a fighting art is just silly. Most of the Krav maga people I have seen Look just like American "Self-defense" competetors at the sat. bullshido point tournaments. a lot of hissing, and big "don't move while I do this" moves.

You could probably learn to defend your self with these systems, provided the attacker was caught off gaurd and was not a trained fighter, but why waist time with these when there ae better ways to train?

Ok, here we go again... Another military-hating, childish, fool who doesn't know the first thing about what he/she is talking about.

Keep in mind, before you go ranting about how you are "this", how you are "that", how you have trained with "this person" and "this person"; I am a Law Enforcement Officer, serving for the Dallas County SRT, am a former Dallas City SWAT Officer, a former US Army Special Forces Weapons Sergeant and Drill Sergeant, and a former US Marine Corps Infantryman (0311) from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Unit. I am in my 40's and have over 30 years of Martial Arts experience, where I first began my training in Okinawan Karate at age 5 under my father who WAS a Navy (SEAL) UDT Operative.


"Soldiers fight with guns"

Is that so? So what happens if we lose our "GUN"; say in an explosion, where it completely causes the weapon to be completely unsuable? What happens when we're clearing that corner, hallway, room, or closet, and we're less than 25 meters (which most Close Quarters shootouts occur. If you've instructed law enforcement, or are a law enforcement officer, you'd know that.) and our weapon jams? Are we just going to give up and say, "Okay! Okay! Don't kill me! I don't know how to fight hand to hand, so please, DON'T KILL ME"? Is that what you're suggesting? What are we gonna start throwing rocks and debris at them? What if there aren't any rocks available?
I do believe that's why we carry ka-bars, bayonets, and DO learn how to fight hand to hand.
If you remember right, this is modern times where we DO have to know how to fight hand to hand.




"Don't you get tired of the old "he was a navey seal, he'll kick your ass." statments?"



Ok.. Here we go, yet, again. "NAVY" SEALs are Tier-1 (along with Army Delta Force being just a step or three higher). Other than that, there is nothing higher. Army Rangers are Tier-2. Marines aren't even a Tier asset, although we won't get into that here (about who is better, and what-not).
We should ALL keep in mind that Law Enforcement Officers of all calibers are a JOKE compared to military forces (yes, even SWAT and SRT is a joke in comparison). Military Forces are faced with not just having to kill, but having to capture priority targets (such as top-class terrorist leaders, such as, "The Ace of Spades") and have to deal with rules of engagement that include "not killing civilians" in which they will most likely have to work around civilians in any military operation (especially where capturing key-targets is involved).
The order of greatest to least is like this:
1)Military Special Operations (Navy SEALs, Green Berets, ect)

2)Federal Special Operations (CIA Clandestine Operative Groups, FBI HRT, DEA, ect)

3)Local Law Enforcement Special Operations (SWAT, SRT, ect)

Let's put it this way...
If you drop military and law enforcement out in the middle of nowhere, or put them in the street, the military joes are going to destroy the law enforcement cocky-jockey's.
Think of the old term, "coffee and doughnuts" and, "MRE's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner".

Now, Navy SEALs are truly some of the best special operations forces in the world. They don't just learn how to fire MP5's (and other various sub-machine guns), rifles, carbines, pistols, and MG's and learn military tactics on fire-team maneuvers, battle-drills, and the liking.
If that were the case, Navy SEALs would be just as good as any other force.
The reason Navy SEALs are THAT (SO badass), is because they absolutely must train in ALL different types of warfare, from having absolutely nothing available to them (this is where hand to hand combat comes in), to not being able to use any weapons due to rules of engagement, or because even the sound of a sound suppressor might give away their position (but must take an enemy out SOMEHOW).
With that being said, they MUST know how to kill an enemy as silently as possible.

Another scenario:
A Navy SEAL, Air Force Combat Controller, Army Green Beret, Marine Force Recon Operator (MARSOC), US Army Ranger, a Marine, a Soldier, an Airman, or a Sailor held captive by the enemy as a prisoner of war (POW)...
They could've been captured by many different types of ways...
Say more than half of his squad was taken out by an IED (civilian police [keep in mind that ALL of them ARE civilians] do NOT have to deal with this threat, and/or if they do, not nearly as close as our Armed Forces do) or a couple RPGs or mortars(something that Law Enforcement will NEVER have to deal with), he was a survivor although was knocked out or heavily disoriented from the blast. The enemy captures him after being aware that he's alive, takes all of his weapons, armor, gear, and everything that he'd use to kill them away from him... no one is there to help him (as they are either seriously wounded and incapacitated, or thoroughly dead), they lock him up somewhere and he's now "useless"? He can't fight "like a pro"?

I think not.

Now it's understandable that they'd teach our frontline soldiers (i.e. US Army Combat Arms Troops, US Marines, and Special Operation Forces) hand to hand combat tactics, and give them the knowledge to kill the enemy as fast and effective as possible without being killed, because they have extremely valuable information that the enemy MUST NOT obtain.
They're actually starting to train ALL servicemen how to fight these days.
Keep in mind that they're constantly redefining and honing their methods of hand to hand combat, and also keep in mind that what they teach to average Soldiers and Marines, is NOT the same thing that they teach to Special Operations Forces (such as Rangers, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, MARSOC, ect).
They're going to teach them fast, lethal, and very effective methods of unarmed, and disadvantageous combat tactics in order for them to be able to survive, evade, resist, and escape/extract.

Are you suggesting that you could take on any soldier/marine/airman/sailor that has only received training from the military? I think you're out of your wits, and are living in a dream world. These men fight and train constantly with, and without weapons. It's a must-have for many, many different types of scenarios.
Try taking on a Delta Force Operative, or a Navy SEAL. If you don't have the combat and/or combat training experience that he has (as he is a very well-trained killer), he will dissect you faster than you can think. Trust, he WILL kill you. If he doesn't, he's merely showing sympathy and mercy for your pathetic, civilian-ass.
You want to put this to the test? Go into a military bar, or a gentleman's club where there will most likely be an Army Ranger, Green Beret, Navy SEAL, or someone else of the same caliber. I wouldn't advise you mess with a real Delta Boy, as they truly recruit from all of the best of the best (from Navy SEALs to Green Berets).
Approach one and pick a fight with him.
If you wanna "keep it legal" (no REAL fight is a clean fight, remember that), challenge him to go to your McDojo or anywhere, where when he slams you on your ass, he won't break your pelvis or your back.
If and when he mops the floor with you, don't come back here crying. Actually, go ahead and delete your account, as you have clearly been proven wrong and are being called, "bullshido" by one who most likely has far more experience than you do in real combat.


There's also the philosophy that we taught our combat arms troops in the Army (I left the Army in 2008):
"Before you pick up any weapon, gear, or anything else that would give you an advantage over the enemy... learn how to fight without it first."

Saying that our troops are helpless without their weapons, gear, and/or tactics is like saying police officers are useless without their duty belts (including side-arms, tazers, mace, batons, ect).
They teach Military personnel how to kill, capture, and detain as well.
Where do you think Law Enforcement learned it? The biggest difference between Military and Law Enforcement, is the "levels/use of deadly force". Keep in mind that the Military has their own "Rules of Engagement" on "Levels/Use of Deadly Force", although it is NOT as strict as Law-Enforcement, meaning that Law-Enforcement is at a lower caliber in their training (due to the fact that 'use of deadly force' is rarely authorized).
Remember that before there was a country, there was a militia (military). Keep that in mind before you go disrespecting, and talking down on military personnel.


Also, you all need to keep in mind that Active Duty combat armsmen don't train "a few hours a day". They are servicemen 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They aren't like us civilians, they get paid to train and learn how to fight; that's how they get their paycheck.
This means that they train, train, train on all forms of combat and tactics (including hand to hand combat) all day long, including their physical fitness. It isn't like a "great UFC fighter", someone who supposedly trains 6-10 hours a day ('bullshido', Matt Hughes only trains 4 hours per day, if that). 10 hours of training per day to these men is a luxury, a joke.
These men train up to 20 hours per day (only entitled to 4 hours of NON-consecutive sleep, and 2 minute MRE chow-breaks three times per day). While these men aren't deployed, they're constantly training all the time. They're also entitled only Sundays off, due to religious services.
Law Enforcement does NOT train this way, as they don't have the time or funding for it.

All of your precious little tax dollars are going to the training of your troops. You're supporting them, whether you like it or not.

Don't think because of what you see on TV (soldiers fighting with guns), that they're not doing something else for training.

As long as we can keep the enemy thinking that we're not doing enough in our training, he'll underestimate us and we'll overpower him every time.


You want some proof? Either go pick a fight with an "above average" serviceman, or go look up some manuals on military hand to hand combat.
MCMAP, MACP, and.. well, i'll leave it up to you to find the rest.
What you will find in MACP will be extremely narrowed down from it's origional version, as there are tactics in the 7 levels (the average citizens and soldiers only believe that there are 4 levels) of these combatives that mustn't get to the publics eye.
It's virtually impossible for one to get the actual manual with all 7 levels over the internet, or anywhere else 'public'.
MCMAP will also be very narrowed down, although you will find more in it's 'publicized version'.

Also, you have to keep in mind that (no intention of changing this topic to politics) Israel has been constantly at war for THOUSANDS of years.
The story of 'Mike Lee Kanarek' includes that he served in the Israeli Defense Forces, starting at age 18 and was selected to join "Orev Golani", a special operations unit of the "Golani Brigade". He's also a veteran of anti-terrorism/counter-terrorism. With all of us who know, "anti-terrorist/counter-terrorist" groups (including Navy SEALs, Delta, British SAS, and other groups) battle combat in all different areas, including hand-to-hand, unarmed vs armed, armed vs unarmed, armed vs armed in all aspects (including gun, knife, ect) in all different areas of battle (from urban cities to jungles, swamps, plains, and fields).

His tactical system is very simple, easy, very effective (due to constant overlapping, short circuiting, attacking, and achieving the main objective) and has very few flaws.
His knife tactics are excellent (in my personal and professional opinion), bar-none, due to the fact that I've been in many situations where I had to fight knife to knife and knife to hand (only 4 days ago against an assailant at wal-mart who slammed a shopping cart into my wifes car because he thought it was funny. the punk was carring a fold-out knife, as was I. I used some of the tactics that I learned from Mike and tactics that I learned in the Marines/Army [including Kali and Escrima], and overcame him as I severed tendons in his arm and in one of his legs destroying his mobility and ability to attack, subdued him, and had the local police arrest him as the ambulance took him to the hospital. The kid showed a display of fancy 'bullshido', but was ineffective with me. He knew (somewhat) of what he was doing, but he couldn't amount to the skill that I had. The police were actually questionable as to whether or not they should arrest me, although I had a few witnesses that watched the whole thing happen. I walked away from that situation unharmed, and didn't get my ass locked up. (thank God; to think of a city local locking me up). The only thing that I had to do, was fill out some paperwork. This isn't intended for bragging/boasting, this is only so I may re-iterate my point).

The things that Mike teaches in his system is very effective (as I have learned some of the same things in the military, and in escrima/kali on my off times). His system is merely designed to be learned very, very quickly (unlike martial arts systems that take 10 years or more to be truly effective), but is also designed to be extremely effective.
Mixing his F.I.G.H.T. "HaganaH" system with other forms of martial arts (as I have) proves to be a very, very, VERY effective fighting style.
His "Points of References" are very effective (can also be learned in Muay Thai, although Muay Thai as a whole has been proven pathetically ineffective in a real street fight [unless you've been practicing and conditioning for many, MANY years] as are other ring/sport fighting arts)

With all of that being said, maintain your 'professional bearing', keep your opinions to yourself, and watch what you say.
Ring/sport fighting arts are useless in the street (unless you mix parts of it in your own system, and beware of what you pick as you can and most likely will get rushed by multiple attackers).

I used to think a lot like the way you others think... "If it isn't my way, if it isn't what I agree with, it's useless".
Well, that's wrong. Try Kenpo or Shotokan Karate. You're virtually getting the same results in the end.


Also keep this note in the back of your mind, for as long as you live:

"Don't underestimate those who 'kill for a living'."




Best Regards,
AriesKai

[AriesKai]

Maybe I should practice what I preach rant enclosed.

It's the mystique of learning "what the pro's use". The amusing thing is that cops/army/whatever don't 'do' hand-to-hand combat as part of their daily job so they aren't the 'pros' at all. And there's not a whole lot of mystique to those that do fight for a living. Boxing, wrestling, mma - pretty basic stuff right there. nothing fancy, just lots of training and lots of practice.

You should read my last post.

Combat troops don't 'do' hand-to-hand combat as their daily job?
You're very ill-informed and very misled.
They train in ALL forms of combat, as part of their job requires them to KILL by ANY means necessary.

Boxing, Wrestling, sport/ring fighters... they may be 'pro's' but they're not 'killers'. Chuck Liddel may be able to beat me down in the ring... but get him in MY world, and i'll probably kill him.


As I said... read my last post.


You people are fucking ignorant.

[AriesKai]

By the way..

Pressure Point Control Tactics is a PATHETIC joke for self-defense and is utterly useless against someone who has a very high pain tolerance (like me. pressure points don't even WORK on me, unless it's the nuts. good luck getting a shot there), and/or is on PCP!!!

Pressure point fighting is a way to get yourself killed. You want something that has good grappling from high to low, good stand up fighting, good weapon offense and defense, and something that can either KILL or NEARLY KILL your opponent.
You have to be able to overwealm your opponent whether it be defensively reacting and taking control as soon as it happens, or by overlapping your attacks into something more lethal or effective.
Short circuit him and get him off of his train of thought until he crumbles due to the stress, and finish him off (by either restraining/subduing him or killing him "shlocking him out").

If you go into a fight thinking "Ok. This is what i'm going to do, this is what i'm going to do, this is what i'm going to do. This is the move that i'm dead set on. If it doesn't work than that means he did this, in turn I can do this.."

That is all bullshit. You always take the path of least resistance and destroy from there.

Anything else is truly 'bullshido'.

[DerAuslander]

You need to shut the fuck up because the only ignorant person here is you.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

Ok, here we go again... Another military-hating, childish, fool who doesn't know the first thing about what he/she is talking about.

Keep in mind, before you go ranting about how you are "this", how you are "that", how you have trained with "this person" and "this person"; I am a Law Enforcement Officer, serving for the Dallas County SRT, am a former Dallas City SWAT Officer, a former US Army Special Forces Weapons Sergeant and Drill Sergeant, and a former US Marine Corps Infantryman (0311) from the 1st Marine Expeditionary Unit. I am in my 40's and have over 30 years of Martial Arts experience, where I first began my training in Okinawan Karate at age 5 under my father who WAS a Navy (SEAL) UDT Operative.


"Soldiers fight with guns"

Is that so? So what happens if we lose our "GUN"; say in an explosion, where it completely causes the weapon to be completely unsuable? What happens when we're clearing that corner, hallway, room, or closet, and we're less than 25 meters (which most Close Quarters shootouts occur. If you've instructed law enforcement, or are a law enforcement officer, you'd know that.) and our weapon jams? Are we just going to give up and say, "Okay! Okay! Don't kill me! I don't know how to fight hand to hand, so please, DON'T KILL ME"? Is that what you're suggesting? What are we gonna start throwing rocks and debris at them? What if there aren't any rocks available?
I do believe that's why we carry ka-bars, bayonets, and DO learn how to fight hand to hand.
If you remember right, this is modern times where we DO have to know how to fight hand to hand.




"Don't you get tired of the old "he was a navey seal, he'll kick your ass." statments?"



Ok.. Here we go, yet, again. "NAVY" SEALs are Tier-1 (along with Army Delta Force being just a step or three higher). Other than that, there is nothing higher. Army Rangers are Tier-2. Marines aren't even a Tier asset, although we won't get into that here (about who is better, and what-not).
We should ALL keep in mind that Law Enforcement Officers of all calibers are a JOKE compared to military forces (yes, even SWAT and SRT is a joke in comparison). Military Forces are faced with not just having to kill, but having to capture priority targets (such as top-class terrorist leaders, such as, "The Ace of Spades") and have to deal with rules of engagement that include "not killing civilians" in which they will most likely have to work around civilians in any military operation (especially where capturing key-targets is involved).
The order of greatest to least is like this:
1)Military Special Operations (Navy SEALs, Green Berets, ect)

2)Federal Special Operations (CIA Clandestine Operative Groups, FBI HRT, DEA, ect)

3)Local Law Enforcement Special Operations (SWAT, SRT, ect)

Let's put it this way...
If you drop military and law enforcement out in the middle of nowhere, or put them in the street, the military joes are going to destroy the law enforcement cocky-jockey's.
Think of the old term, "coffee and doughnuts" and, "MRE's for breakfast, lunch, and dinner".

Now, Navy SEALs are truly some of the best special operations forces in the world. They don't just learn how to fire MP5's (and other various sub-machine guns), rifles, carbines, pistols, and MG's and learn military tactics on fire-team maneuvers, battle-drills, and the liking.
If that were the case, Navy SEALs would be just as good as any other force.
The reason Navy SEALs are THAT (SO badass), is because they absolutely must train in ALL different types of warfare, from having absolutely nothing available to them (this is where hand to hand combat comes in), to not being able to use any weapons due to rules of engagement, or because even the sound of a sound suppressor might give away their position (but must take an enemy out SOMEHOW).
With that being said, they MUST know how to kill an enemy as silently as possible.

Another scenario:
A Navy SEAL, Air Force Combat Controller, Army Green Beret, Marine Force Recon Operator (MARSOC), US Army Ranger, a Marine, a Soldier, an Airman, or a Sailor held captive by the enemy as a prisoner of war (POW)...
They could've been captured by many different types of ways...
Say more than half of his squad was taken out by an IED (civilian police [keep in mind that ALL of them ARE civilians] do NOT have to deal with this threat, and/or if they do, not nearly as close as our Armed Forces do) or a couple RPGs or mortars(something that Law Enforcement will NEVER have to deal with), he was a survivor although was knocked out or heavily disoriented from the blast. The enemy captures him after being aware that he's alive, takes all of his weapons, armor, gear, and everything that he'd use to kill them away from him... no one is there to help him (as they are either seriously wounded and incapacitated, or thoroughly dead), they lock him up somewhere and he's now "useless"? He can't fight "like a pro"?

I think not.

Now it's understandable that they'd teach our frontline soldiers (i.e. US Army Combat Arms Troops, US Marines, and Special Operation Forces) hand to hand combat tactics, and give them the knowledge to kill the enemy as fast and effective as possible without being killed, because they have extremely valuable information that the enemy MUST NOT obtain.
They're actually starting to train ALL servicemen how to fight these days.
Keep in mind that they're constantly redefining and honing their methods of hand to hand combat, and also keep in mind that what they teach to average Soldiers and Marines, is NOT the same thing that they teach to Special Operations Forces (such as Rangers, Navy SEALs, Green Berets, MARSOC, ect).
They're going to teach them fast, lethal, and very effective methods of unarmed, and disadvantageous combat tactics in order for them to be able to survive, evade, resist, and escape/extract.

Are you suggesting that you could take on any soldier/marine/airman/sailor that has only received training from the military? I think you're out of your wits, and are living in a dream world. These men fight and train constantly with, and without weapons. It's a must-have for many, many different types of scenarios.
Try taking on a Delta Force Operative, or a Navy SEAL. If you don't have the combat and/or combat training experience that he has (as he is a very well-trained killer), he will dissect you faster than you can think. Trust, he WILL kill you. If he doesn't, he's merely showing sympathy and mercy for your pathetic, civilian-ass.
You want to put this to the test? Go into a military bar, or a gentleman's club where there will most likely be an Army Ranger, Green Beret, Navy SEAL, or someone else of the same caliber. I wouldn't advise you mess with a real Delta Boy, as they truly recruit from all of the best of the best (from Navy SEALs to Green Berets).
Approach one and pick a fight with him.
If you wanna "keep it legal" (no REAL fight is a clean fight, remember that), challenge him to go to your McDojo or anywhere, where when he slams you on your ass, he won't break your pelvis or your back.
If and when he mops the floor with you, don't come back here crying. Actually, go ahead and delete your account, as you have clearly been proven wrong and are being called, "bullshido" by one who most likely has far more experience than you do in real combat.


There's also the philosophy that we taught our combat arms troops in the Army (I left the Army in 2008):
"Before you pick up any weapon, gear, or anything else that would give you an advantage over the enemy... learn how to fight without it first."

Saying that our troops are helpless without their weapons, gear, and/or tactics is like saying police officers are useless without their duty belts (including side-arms, tazers, mace, batons, ect).
They teach Military personnel how to kill, capture, and detain as well.
Where do you think Law Enforcement learned it? The biggest difference between Military and Law Enforcement, is the "levels/use of deadly force". Keep in mind that the Military has their own "Rules of Engagement" on "Levels/Use of Deadly Force", although it is NOT as strict as Law-Enforcement, meaning that Law-Enforcement is at a lower caliber in their training (due to the fact that 'use of deadly force' is rarely authorized).
Remember that before there was a country, there was a militia (military). Keep that in mind before you go disrespecting, and talking down on military personnel.


Also, you all need to keep in mind that Active Duty combat armsmen don't train "a few hours a day". They are servicemen 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. They aren't like us civilians, they get paid to train and learn how to fight; that's how they get their paycheck.
This means that they train, train, train on all forms of combat and tactics (including hand to hand combat) all day long, including their physical fitness. It isn't like a "great UFC fighter", someone who supposedly trains 6-10 hours a day ('bullshido', Matt Hughes only trains 4 hours per day, if that). 10 hours of training per day to these men is a luxury, a joke.
These men train up to 20 hours per day (only entitled to 4 hours of NON-consecutive sleep, and 2 minute MRE chow-breaks three times per day). While these men aren't deployed, they're constantly training all the time. They're also entitled only Sundays off, due to religious services.
Law Enforcement does NOT train this way, as they don't have the time or funding for it.

All of your precious little tax dollars are going to the training of your troops. You're supporting them, whether you like it or not.

Don't think because of what you see on TV (soldiers fighting with guns), that they're not doing something else for training.

As long as we can keep the enemy thinking that we're not doing enough in our training, he'll underestimate us and we'll overpower him every time.


You want some proof? Either go pick a fight with an "above average" serviceman, or go look up some manuals on military hand to hand combat.
MCMAP, MACP, and.. well, i'll leave it up to you to find the rest.
What you will find in MACP will be extremely narrowed down from it's origional version, as there are tactics in the 7 levels (the average citizens and soldiers only believe that there are 4 levels) of these combatives that mustn't get to the publics eye.
It's virtually impossible for one to get the actual manual with all 7 levels over the internet, or anywhere else 'public'.
MCMAP will also be very narrowed down, although you will find more in it's 'publicized version'.

Also, you have to keep in mind that (no intention of changing this topic to politics) Israel has been constantly at war for THOUSANDS of years.
The story of 'Mike Lee Kanarek' includes that he served in the Israeli Defense Forces, starting at age 18 and was selected to join "Orev Golani", a special operations unit of the "Golani Brigade". He's also a veteran of anti-terrorism/counter-terrorism. With all of us who know, "anti-terrorist/counter-terrorist" groups (including Navy SEALs, Delta, British SAS, and other groups) battle combat in all different areas, including hand-to-hand, unarmed vs armed, armed vs unarmed, armed vs armed in all aspects (including gun, knife, ect) in all different areas of battle (from urban cities to jungles, swamps, plains, and fields).

His tactical system is very simple, easy, very effective (due to constant overlapping, short circuiting, attacking, and achieving the main objective) and has very few flaws.
His knife tactics are excellent (in my personal and professional opinion), bar-none, due to the fact that I've been in many situations where I had to fight knife to knife and knife to hand (only 4 days ago against an assailant at wal-mart who slammed a shopping cart into my wifes car because he thought it was funny. the punk was carring a fold-out knife, as was I. I used some of the tactics that I learned from Mike and tactics that I learned in the Marines/Army [including Kali and Escrima], and overcame him as I severed tendons in his arm and in one of his legs destroying his mobility and ability to attack, subdued him, and had the local police arrest him as the ambulance took him to the hospital. The kid showed a display of fancy 'bullshido', but was ineffective with me. He knew (somewhat) of what he was doing, but he couldn't amount to the skill that I had. The police were actually questionable as to whether or not they should arrest me, although I had a few witnesses that watched the whole thing happen. I walked away from that situation unharmed, and didn't get my ass locked up. (thank God; to think of a city local locking me up). The only thing that I had to do, was fill out some paperwork. This isn't intended for bragging/boasting, this is only so I may re-iterate my point).

The things that Mike teaches in his system is very effective (as I have learned some of the same things in the military, and in escrima/kali on my off times). His system is merely designed to be learned very, very quickly (unlike martial arts systems that take 10 years or more to be truly effective), but is also designed to be extremely effective.
Mixing his F.I.G.H.T. "HaganaH" system with other forms of martial arts (as I have) proves to be a very, very, VERY effective fighting style.
His "Points of References" are very effective (can also be learned in Muay Thai, although Muay Thai as a whole has been proven pathetically ineffective in a real street fight [unless you've been practicing and conditioning for many, MANY years] as are other ring/sport fighting arts)

With all of that being said, maintain your 'professional bearing', keep your opinions to yourself, and watch what you say.
Ring/sport fighting arts are useless in the street (unless you mix parts of it in your own system, and beware of what you pick as you can and most likely will get rushed by multiple attackers).

I used to think a lot like the way you others think... "If it isn't my way, if it isn't what I agree with, it's useless".
Well, that's wrong. Try Kenpo or Shotokan Karate. You're virtually getting the same results in the end.


Also keep this note in the back of your mind, for as long as you live:

"Don't underestimate those who 'kill for a living'."




Best Regards,
AriesKai

Here's something to know:

- People who are/were don't flap their mouths about it.

- People who wanted to be, but couldn't be know all the facts and figures. Must have taken some time to find everything on the internetz.

[dougguod]

AriesKai, you seem to have completely missed the point of this thread. The discussion isn't whether or not military personnel do/should get hand-to-hand training because everyone here,particularly the ones with the green rectangles next to their names notating current or former military service, knows they do and agrees that they should. Nor is it about whether soldiers are tougher than cops or boxers,wrestlers,cage fighters etc, because that is the sort of sweeping generalization that only a fool would engage in. No, the point of this thread is whether or not a particular style, which markets itself as a quasi-military system,is any good . If you have any first hand experience with haganagh, feel free to stick around and share. If you want to discuss your perception of the current strengths and weaknesses of police and/or military training start a new thread. If you choose to do the latter, though, keep in mind that h2h training is, always will be and probably should be, a small part of police and military training. After all, while real cops and soldiers do sometimes face scenarios like the ones you describe, the notion that officers routinely engage in fisticuffs with gang members who politely attack singly or in pairs no matter how large their group is, or that soldiers are more effective when they get dropped solo behind enemy lines and kickbox their way Norris/ Van Damme style through enemy battalions is laughable. Of course, being the quintessential Police-And Military-Tough-Guy that you are,you already knew that, right?

[Lindz]

[Diesel_tke]

AriesKai, You are almost completely wrong on everything you said. I could care less about any of your bull shit stories.

Prove have of the stuff you said before you start spouting off. First, where and when did you get in this knife fight, and please give me the case number of the incident so that I can verify it with the local police department.

Please e-mail your DD214 to a mod so we can verify your military credentials. Then e-mail proof of your LEO work history so we can verify that claim.

Then list your combat training, what it is in, and how long you trained in it.

After all of that, we will discuss your issues, and how wrong they all are.

If you fail to do this, then you are simply a highschooler, who is out on Christmas break!

[It is Fake]

Remember Haganah? (F.I.G.H.T.) - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

Read the rules or and STFU.

[permahudef]

Jeebus Christophskyson!
The thread died from 2004-2006...Necro'd
Then dead again from 2006-2007...Necro'd again!
Then dead again from 2007-2009...And here we are...

It's like milk...that turned to cheese...then went moldy...then fermented...
Yeah, I'm saying this thread is blue cheese dressing. That's right.

[JudOWNED]

Blue cheese dressing is good. This thread, however, sucks.

So what happens if we lose our "GUN"; say in an explosion, where it completely causes the weapon to be completely unsuable?

You rush forward into incoming fire with your knife in your teeth? lol I stopped reading there. FRAT.

[AriesKai]

This like so many other CQB type programs is designed to teach a lot of recruits quick and easy hand to hand fighting. I have taught PPCT at the police academy In Indianapolis. These types of programs are not comprehensive. especialy the Military versions. soldiers fight with guns. Don't you get tired of the old "he was a navey seal, he'll kick your ass." statments? Sure he will with an MP5. I think for what they are, a supliment to modern military tactics, they are fine. To sell it as a fighting art is just silly. Most of the Krav maga people I have seen Look just like American "Self-defense" competetors at the sat. bullshido point tournaments. a lot of hissing, and big "don't move while I do this" moves.

You could probably learn to defend your self with these systems, provided the attacker was caught off gaurd and was not a trained fighter, but why waist time with these when there ae better ways to train?

Sure, go ahead and delete my last comments. That doesn't change the fact that you're a complete, ignorant, dumb fuck that doesn't know the first thing about fighting and/or self defense. Your "pressure point fighting" shit won't suffice in a real engagement.
Try that shit on someone who can actually fight, and you're going to get your head ripped off.


Again, Navy SEALs are Tier 1, they of course train to fight in every aspect of combat (including hand to hand combat).
Say they get captured, somehow lose their weapon, weapon malfunctions.. something is bound to happen that will cause them to lose their "gun" and will have to fight hand to hand in some form, and they won't have to rely on their buddy to help him out. That's the reality of it.
Local Law Enforcement agencies are on the bottom of the food chain, federal is 2nd in line, then it's military and clandestine.

Do some homework, you pathetic joke.

You're an ignorant piece of shit that needs to learn some respect.

Saying "soldiers fight with guns" is an ignorant statement. That's like saying, "black people have bigger penis' than anyone else" when John C. Holmes still holds the record. Don't think for one second that your little statement and deleting my contradiction (that you obviously couldn't contradict or debate back) makes you any better.

You're a fool.

Take your notions and go teach more "bullshido" because we all know you're a phony.


Dumbass.

[Tex]

You re-wrote War and Peace to necro a thread and make moot points about ignorence? That's like standing in front of the Urinal wearing sandals.

[Diesel_tke]

Sure, go ahead and delete my last comments. That doesn't change the fact that you're a complete, ignorant, dumb fuck that doesn't know the first thing about fighting and/or self defense. Your "pressure point fighting" shit won't suffice in a real engagement.
Try that shit on someone who can actually fight, and you're going to get your head ripped off.


Again, Navy SEALs are Tier 1, they of course train to fight in every aspect of combat (including hand to hand combat).
Say they get captured, somehow lose their weapon, weapon malfunctions.. something is bound to happen that will cause them to lose their "gun" and will have to fight hand to hand in some form, and they won't have to rely on their buddy to help him out. That's the reality of it.
Local Law Enforcement agencies are on the bottom of the food chain, federal is 2nd in line, then it's military and clandestine.

Do some homework, you pathetic joke.

You're an ignorant piece of shit that needs to learn some respect.

Saying "soldiers fight with guns" is an ignorant statement. That's like saying, "black people have bigger penis' than anyone else" when John C. Holmes still holds the record. Don't think for one second that your little statement and deleting my contradiction (that you obviously couldn't contradict or debate back) makes you any better.

You're a fool.

Take your notions and go teach more "bullshido" because we all know you're a phony.


Dumbass.

Your post was not deleted it was moved here.

And no, you are the dumbass.

[AriesKai]

AriesKai, You are almost completely wrong on everything you said. I could care less about any of your bull shit stories.

Prove have of the stuff you said before you start spouting off. First, where and when did you get in this knife fight, and please give me the case number of the incident so that I can verify it with the local police department.

Please e-mail your DD214 to a mod so we can verify your military credentials. Then e-mail proof of your LEO work history so we can verify that claim.

Then list your combat training, what it is in, and how long you trained in it.

After all of that, we will discuss your issues, and how wrong they all are.

If you fail to do this, then you are simply a highschooler, who is out on Christmas break!

Posting my DD form 214 from Active Duty service in both the United States Marine Corps and the United States Army is the same thing as me posting my social security number, my date of birth, my name, ect. If you know anything about it, then you'd know that i'm NOT going to do that.
Also, you're NOT going to get any personal information about me in regards to the case. If you know anything about law enforcement, all cases are sealed until opened to the public during court convictions.
What I WILL tell you is that the knife fight occurred at a Wal-Mart off of Interstate Highway 82 and Highway 75 located in Sherman, Texas.
Go ahead and call Sherman PD, give a hollar at Cheif Watt for me while you're at it.
You think because you're some 'mojo' on a 'know it all' forum that you're some guru about other people's lives?
What are you claiming to be some fucking psychic with special abilities?
My combat training, I would share (if I gave a fuck to list off the MANY things that i'd done, taking LOTS of my own personal time on my day off work).

A high schooler? I tell ya what, you can call me at a number and I will speak to you over the phone about this little "bullshit game" you try to play. Once you realize how deep and intimidating my voice is, you'll take a second thought about your statement about me being some high school fuck.

In fact, I personally think most high school kids are disrespectful, dishonorable, dumb fucks who think they know everything about life before they've even experienced it.

You, sir, can go fuck yourself and get off your high horse.


In fact, everything that I said was true in every sense. I see that absolutely no one had anything to contradict me at any point.
Show me where I was wrong! I am BEGGING you!



Don't let this loser fool you, anyone. Just because he has some sort of 'administrator power' doesn't mean that he's anything special in reality.
He's another person that puts his pants on the same fucking way (with just.. less information and intelligence level).