Good combinations with HKD?

[Hylas]

Hey everyone!

This is my first post to Bullshido--I finally made an account for some theorycrafting and getting some help deciding on which styles would work well with my base art for a few purposes.

First off, I think an introduction is in order, just 'cuz.

I'm Hylas (that's not my real name, obviously, but I did see someone have a 9-page discussion on whether they should name their baby "Hylas") . I just recently became interested in Martial Arts (over this summer) and after Cross Country ended for my high school gave a few trial lessons at varios dojos/dojangs a go and settled on Hapkido out of HKD, TKD, Enshin Karate, and Judo.

I've been doing HKD for a few months now and am the kind of person interested in planning everything out in advance.

So, what I'm wondering is...which of these do you think is the best for (in order of priority) and why?

1) Self-defence, but not the incredibly violent kind, the "only-do-what-needs-to-be-done" kind (I guess I can't be picky when defending myself from a nonnegotiable hostile situation but I'd prefer something for which there's less of a chance of me being put in jail or summat)
2) Competition--MMA.
3) General fitness, assuming I work damn hard. Including cardio and flexibility, I guess.

My base art is HKD. I'm trying to decide what to add on to it over the course of a few years. I intend to get a solid foundation before adding something on, probably green or blue belt before I start. I'm currently an orange belt--only the second, but I prefer not to rush when it comes to this.

HKD/Muay Thai/Judo
HKD/MT/BJJ
HKD/Judo/BJJ

Other suggestions are welcome.

(order can be rearranged)


Thanks, everyone.

Sorry if this is a dumb question. :P

[100xobm]

I'd suggest trying out a few MT classes, and a few BJJ and judo classes. Do it now, not later.

Without getting indepth, it might be a good reality check. though for all I know, you could be fine as you are.

[TrueKarateKid]

....I must be misreading this. Are we being asked to tell you what your priority for learning a martial art should be?

Also, I second the MT/BJJ idea.

[nightowl]

Out of curiosity what is your HKD training like? Do you do any (non-point) sparring? Either way you usually can't go wrong with MT or BJJ.

[Hylas]

....I must be misreading this. Are we being asked to tell you what your priority for learning a martial art should be?

Also, I second the MT/BJJ idea.

No. But I'm asking anyone who cares to answer what their opinion is and how techniques from either BJJ, Judo and Muay Thai lend themselves to HKD. As in, I can't really decide what to take along with Hapkido--I'd like to crosstrain in something, but I'm not sure which art (or arts, later on). I'm a bit indecisive, so I'm just wondering what people think the advantages of each art, in conjunction with HKD, are.

:P

Can I go ahead and use my "o hai im new lol this is a stupid question disregard it pls?" card?

Nightowl: It's a small dojo of 2-5 students, depending on who can make it, run by an engaged (I think) couple of second-degree black belts who are currently training with GM Jimm McMurray. The school's pretty new, and I enjoy it a lot. From what I can tell from what I've read, it's not TKD with joint locks--we spend quite a bit of time on punches, and the students above me (I'm the newest of the 5, an orange belt--it took me about a month and 3 weeks to move up from white belt) We divide our time between conditioning, punches, kicks, rolls, breakfalls, throws and breakouts from a variety of types of wrist grabs. It advances at higher levels with more types of throws, escapes and all that. Weapons training in a few weapons begins later on, and we currently do slowmo sparring maybe twice or thrice a month (three meetings/week) as well as full-speed one-steps or three-steps.

I've researched and talked with people and I'm quite positive it's not a McDojo. The instructors are very friendly, helpful, and don't rush things. Everyone can take practice at their own pace, and I love it.

[Kintanon]

How are you practicing the throws and escapes? Do you spend the entire time taking turns throwing each other or letting each other escape?
Or do you actively try to resist and escape while your partner is trying to throw you? The distinction is a very important one.
Theoretically speaking almost everything you learn in HKD should be legal in either a grappling competition or a kickboxing comp.
If you don't feel like you would be able to use your techniques in something that looks like this:
YouTube- Jesse Leighton - Rnd. 1 - NAGA Grappling Tournament 2/14/09

OR like this:
YouTube- amateur kickboxing match

Without getting killed or killing someone (ie: Too Deadly to Spar) then you should change arts immediately.
If you could give either of those a try and be comfortable with the idea then you might be doing something worthwhile.

[Just Guess]

If you're only sparring that often I would seriously recommend just leaving for one of the other options you listed.

[Ka-Bar]

You had Enshin and Judo available and you picked Hapkido?!?

I used to be young and naive, like you. I used to practice Hapkido, too, until I found Bullshido and realized it was pretty worthless.

Slowmo sparring might have its (albeit very, very small) place, but one-step and three-step sparring doesn't. Fights don't end after one step or three. Or even five or ten. A real fight (and quality sparring) is fluid and dynamic and doesn't end after a three-punch combo.

Just because it's not a McDojo doesn't mean it's not Bullshido.

[battlefields]

Dude, I did HKD up until the end of last year/ start of this year....

I had a massive rambling post written but I deleted it. The general gist was how I came to the conclusion HKD was not for me. We will all tell you to train in something else such as Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, etc. You will be told this repeatedly. You will resist, extolling the virtues of your particular brand of HKD and how it is different to others. We will not believe you and ask for proof. You will tell us to come down to your dojang and see for ourselves. We will say no. You will say something in relation to keyboard warriors and no honour. We might investigate your school. You might have some strong words to say. There will be all this and more...

You can avoid all this by quitting HKD and going to the above mentioned martial arts.

[Hylas]

Kinta: The time we do spend with throws and escapes starts out with pairing up/tripling in and going step-by-step, then speeding it up as we feel more comfortable. Eventually, after feeling comfortable doing it full-speed or close, we can ask the partner to actively try to resist or not if we don't feel we've reached that level yet. The same thing with throws, as well. Though, we usually slow it down for the "live" throwing. We've only done the first and second throw form so far but we've spent quite a bit of time working on each. We also practice rolling out of throws.

On mats and with pads, I feel like all of the techniques I've practiced so far should be usable in something like you posted without seriously damaging someone. Full contact, I also think that as long as self restraint is shown nothing (too) bad will happen. EG, you're not gonna dodge and back-fist to the temple in a friendly sparring match.

Guess: yeah...I think it gets a little bit more intense and often once we have more of the class in to the yellow/green belt level. Right now it's the two black belts, our instructors, and one green, one yellow and three orange belts. The green belt has been training with our instructors for 9 or 10 months, I think. However, I'm looking for the other arts to spar more (practice makes perfect, or gets you closer, anyways) and to help shore up some of the weaker points, eg ground game. My HKD school has a fair bit of groundfighting but not until a ways later on in the cirriculum.

[ironcastknight]

Do Judo or Enshin/boxing instead for a year or two.

Judo: Cheap, widely available, and you get to throw bitches via simple, logical, and efficient physics. Then kill them with your balls. It's hard, simple, and encourages realistic training, so it's probably pretty good for self defense.

Enshin: Smash people with Kyokushin Karate strikes, then throw them with basic Judo throws. Possibly smash them some more after they land. Not too good with getting punched in the face, though. Good if your definition of "self defense" is "punch people in the organs until they go bleh and fall down".

Boxing: Cheap and widely available. Excel at punching people in face! Most people are weak to Punched-in-the-face no Jitsu, so that's good for self defense.

I don't know too much about Hapkido aside from what I've read, what I did in TKD, and what I do in Matsuno-ryu Jujitsu(which, according to what I've read, is fairly similar), but... well, I wouldn't spend too much time on it.

Also, where do you live? Chances are someone knows of a great place to train and can point you in the right direction.

[Hylas]

Dude, I did HKD up until the end of last year/ start of this year....

I had a massive rambling post written but I deleted it. The general gist was how I came to the conclusion HKD was not for me. We will all tell you to train in something else such as Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, etc. You will be told this repeatedly. You will resist, extolling the virtues of your particular brand of HKD and how it is different to others. We will not believe you and ask for proof. You will tell us to come down to your dojang and see for ourselves. We will say no. You will say something in relation to keyboard warriors and no honour. We might investigate your school. You might have some strong words to say. There will be all this and more...

You can avoid all this by quitting HKD and going to the above mentioned martial arts.

I just realized how glorified I'm making my school sound.

I dunno...I enjoy it. I don't think I'm going to drop Hapkido, since I trust my instructors and I'll see how it goes, but I'm thinking I'll give BJJ and Muay Thai a try to see how the training styles, as well as the martial arts, compare.

I live in Boulder, CO, USA.

Edit:
Wordchoice. "How glorifying I'm making my school sound?" Oops.

[Just Guess]

Hylas, assuming there is proper training equipment, mats for grappling, gloves mouthpiece etc. for striking, it should not take very long to be able to do some reasonably intense sparring. As long as you know how to breakfall for throws, to tap to submissions, and get used to having punches and kicks thrown at you there should be no problems. Maybe in addition to training something else you can talk to your hapkido instructors about upping the intensity.

[Ka-Bar]

I just realized how glorifying I'm making my school sound.

I dunno...I enjoy it. I don't think I'm going to drop Hapkido, since I trust my instructors and I'll see how it goes, but I'm thinking I'll give BJJ and Muay Thai a try to see how the training styles, as well as the martial arts, compare.

I live in Boulder, CO, USA.

You've been doing martial arts all of what, 6 months, and are referring to Hapkido as your base art? You're talking about MMA competitions? Name me one successful MMA fighter whose base is Hapkido.

The reason you like Hapkido is because it's fun, not particularly painful or physically taxing and you think you're learning something useful.

Go to Muay Thai or Judo or BJJ class. It won't be fun. Not for the first few weeks, at least. These arts are difficult and the classes are hard. Not only do they require a certain fitness level, they require sport-specific conditioning in addition to whatever techniques you may learn. This is why these arts are proven to be successful in MMA and self-defense, they self-select for a fit, tough and technical martial artist who can apply his techniques successfully against a resisting opponent. Hapkido does not.

[Hylas]

Guess: I'll talk to them.

3 Wise Guys: I can't, seeing as I don't watch MMA all that much. And I'll check those out.

Question: is a lot of the negative stuff (well, just from what I've seen) against HKD against the training method are the art itself?

Edit: I also can't name an MMA fighter who's base is HKD probably because you asked me due to the fact that you know there are painfully few of them.