Basic technique forum

[Asriel]

Battlefields, you do BJJ right?

Do you have issues with the terms; Americana, Kimura, shrimping, Omoplata?

To someone who doesn't know what they are, they mean nothing but you wouldn't expect a coach to stand at the side of the competition mat shouting "Do the shoulder lock with your leg where his arm is pointing the other way to your legs!"

Descriptions are meaningless, a simple label for a technique makes learning so much easier. Unless people would rather whine about it on the internet instead of course.

[SaintHamish]

I didnt know what Omoplata was until I googled it. Now I do.

[PointyShinyBurn]

Guys, I don't think you're listening to how serious a problem this is:

I googled it before I even started the thread, took me, like, twenty seconds. Three to load up google, three to enter the word, three for google to load search results, three to open search result and eight to read the fucking thing.

A whole 20 seconds of this man's time was used up! Worse, he might even have learned something in the process!

Won't somebody think of the children?

[poker]

The first time I heard the term "reap" I didn't know what the fuck it meant. It is not in common english usage to use the verb to reap on people. I mean reap is what you do with wheat right? So I went to a baking forum and luckily there was a guy there who does judo who put me right.

:virus:

[battlefields]

Battlefields, you do BJJ right?

Do you have issues with the terms; Americana, Kimura, shrimping, Omoplata?

To someone who doesn't know what they are, they mean nothing but you wouldn't expect a coach to stand at the side of the competition mat shouting "Do the shoulder lock with your leg where his arm is pointing the other way to your legs!"

Descriptions are meaningless, a simple label for a technique makes learning so much easier. Unless people would rather whine about it on the internet instead of course.

To reiterate, I don't train in anything that requires me to learn Japanese terms and yet I am not refusing to learn Japanese terms. In fact, I want to learn these terms from one of the best sources of martial arts info on the web, which is bullshido.com's basic forum, even if I don't need to learn them for my chosen art.

I have asked in the basic forum when I started BJJ the difference between an Americana and a Kimura. A simple description (something along the lines of Americana is their hand facing up, kimura is down) was provided, I knew if I wanted the specific intricacies of the technique I would have to ask my instructor. Nobody jumped up and down and said google it, you lazy fuck. Nobody chastised me for my confusion of the technique's names.

No, I wouldn't expect a coach in a competition to do that, but I'd sure as hell expect him to have shown and explained to me when I was learning the basics what the technique was so that later I'd know what he was shouting at me in that competition.


Does everyone understand the difference between basic and advanced? As this is my favourite and pretty much only internet website I visit and the basic technique forum I frequent, I maybe was asking a bit much for all the Japanese- style n00bs to be let in on the terminology of people that might be able to help them.

Everyone seems happy to come to their own conclusions as to the reason for my post, so be it.

[Coach Josh]

Kouchigari is a basic technique. It is day 1 Judo after break falls.

I understand that Australia is the red headed step brother of America but do you have to continue to be a douche about this.

[permahudef]

For any future ramblings

http://tinyurl.com/yd7ml4u

Beat me to it!

[battlefields]

Nah, I'm done. Continue using your "in" words all you like, I'll continue looking them up using google and thinking that one word responses in the basics forum is the poster being pretentious and feeding their own ego rather than assisting someone who is keen to learn.

PS, red headed step brother, lol, well played, sir, you know politics too well.

[Naszir]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Basic Technique forum. It isn't a "Teach me judo/bjj/whatever" forum. Its purpose is more for troubleshooting specific basic techniques. So a lexicon of technique names is not its purpose but requesting assistance on a part of a technique like "I am having an issue with timing the reap on a kouchi-gari, can someone help?" or "When breaking their balance on kouchi-gari where do I need to break their balance to?" would be appropriate.

[1point2]

This is ridiculous. I just read the original thread (grappling help - No BS MMA and Martial Arts) and I see this:

OP (not battlefields): I'm doing judo, and can't close the distance despite being strong.

Other guys: kuzushi (to which 1.2 says "uh, OK, how do you mean?")

Coach Josh: kouchigari

Who in that discussion is not able to understand kouchigari? It's communication internal to judo!

To counter battlefields' earlier anecdote about the Americana and Kimura: if there were a thread saying "How do I set up my guillotine?" (for example) and some knowledgable BJJ guy said "Kimura," that would be sufficient. If some judo guy came in and complained that we should say "gyaku hadaka jime" and "ude garami" we'd tell him to fuck off.

In fact, battlefield's own Americana/Kimura anecdote proves he's wrong! Watch:

I have asked in the basic forum when I started BJJ the difference between an Americana and a Kimura. A simple description (something along the lines of Americana is their hand facing up, kimura is down) was provided, I knew if I wanted the specific intricacies of the technique I would have to ask my instructor. Nobody jumped up and down and said google it, you lazy fuck. Nobody chastised me for my confusion of the technique's names.

So when someone asks about terms...they get it explained. Awesome. Yet when the person is asking a more general question, and should know the terminology, we don't bother to explain the terminology that is both more concise and more useful than...some other imaginary way of explaining kouchigari. Still sounds good to me.

Now, yes, wouldn't it be swell if Coach Josh took ten minutes to search Youtube for an instructional on kouchigari combinations, then another twenty minutes looking for an example of kouchigari being used in competition to set up a forward throw like haraigoshi... but who the fuck are we to tell Josh to do that?

[jnp]

I think you misunderstand the purpose of the Basic Technique forum. It isn't a "Teach me judo/bjj/whatever" forum. Its purpose is more for troubleshooting specific basic techniques. So a lexicon of technique names is not its purpose but requesting assistance on a part of a technique like "I am having an issue with timing the reap on a kouchi-gari, can someone help?" or "When breaking their balance on kouchi-gari where do I need to break their balance to?" would be appropriate.

Naszir is correct.

Also it would be a bit inconvenient to post a description along with the name of any technique mentioned by name. For Judo the Japanese names are used. This is largely so that a Judoka can walk into any Judo dojo in the world, and whether or not he can speak the native language of the land, he can still use common nomenclature for throws and ground techniques.

For the record, having never formally studied Judo, I often go to judoinfo dot com myself.

It should be stated that you are free, battlefields, to create your own thread that gives English descriptions of all the throws in Judo. If you decide to do so, please post it in YMAS.

[battlefields]

If I was on a judo forum and the title was "grappling help", yeah, I'd go, well, I don't understand the judo terminology, I will search the terminology on google. But I am on a martial arts forum where the title of the thread is "grappling help" and I grapple, albeit in a different art, I might be able to benefit from something written there, as might someone starting a Japanese art and who stumbles into a technique discussion. But seriously, if you think you are better than a simple explanation after a technique name in the basic forum, even if it is just saying "balance breaking" or a "hip throw" or fucking whatever, go for it, you awesome Japanese speaking martial artists. I'll consider you cool.

However, I repeat, I am not talking about that single fucking thread, it seems endemic, thats all I'm saying.

[1point2]

Do you realize that what you're saying is not feasible?

[Lindz]

Got any other examples?

[2Many]

One thing I have noticed is people on Bullshido regularly use the Japanese names for techniques. Obviously there is a traditional reason for this practise, that being generally the technique in discussion is traditionally Japanese. I understand that and I also understand it must feel heaps good when you post a one word response in another language to a thread, mainly due to the knowledge that a few people with either the same training or who are bilingual would be able to understand this as a niche word.

The use of Japanese names for Judo techniques has nothing to do with ego and everything to do with practicality.

Unfortunately, a brief plain-English description of a technique doesn't help to explain what it is. Take your example of Kouchi-gari: its English translation is "small inner reap", which is hardly helpful for understanding the technique. An actual step-by-step explanation on how to perform the technique can be easily misunderstood, and can take considerable time to write out properly.

Everyone on Bullshido.net has an interest in martial arts. So it shouldn't be too much to expect that if someone posts jargon, a reader who doesn't know what it means will look it up on Google or some other reference source. Even in a beginner's forum, you can expect some basic jargon to be used, and names of techniques are basic jargon, whether it is in English, Japanese, Portuguese, Russian, or any other language.. It would be different if Bullshido.net was a not a martial arts website, but since it is a martial arts website, at least basic jargon should be expected.