Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Stephan Kesting on bullshido and BJJ

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • The Twitcher
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalRage View Post
    Except that you could argue that for point #

    2.) You can't train for reality with proper resistance and have it be legal, because otherwise you'd be committing assault obviously. So you put rules in place to protect the trainees - so then how is that any different from a sport. Not to mention the sports promote basics - if you can't do basics in a simulation how do you think you can do it in real life?
    I don't know about that, but legality isn't my primary concern. The laws where you are may be different from the laws where I am anyway.

    Originally posted by EternalRage View Post
    3.) Just because the ground is covered in whatever, doesn't mean you can't be sent there. Still a necessary skill set.
    Does that skillset emphasize armbars, or getting up?

    Originally posted by EternalRage View Post
    4.) ANY single skill set alone against multiple opponents is going to be a disadvantage, because the majority of the time you are fucked regardless of what you know or train (unless it is gun-fu and you are packing). Also, there are self defense techniques (ground as well as standing grappling) in most grappling systems, it's just that the focus is mostly on sport. If one would do the former, the grappling might have more utility in a multiple opponent encounter - ie you might survive for 10 sec rather than 5.
    You don't even need a skill set to survive, or even win something like that. I have seen videos of people with no training coming out of situations like that victorious. I don't mind looking them up, however, even just one video would prove my point beyond a reasonable doubt.
    Last edited by The Twitcher; 12/05/2009 2:12pm, . Reason: Needed bolding.

    Leave a comment:


  • galois
    replied
    Originally posted by EternalRage View Post
    7. it's taught to the national army of ________. so it must be good
    As a variation on this "some marines went to a seminar on this stuff once, and they kill people so it must be good".

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalRage
    replied
    Originally posted by The Twitcher View Post
    Those are valid points (the AIDS needle one is gratuitous though), especially point #4 if all you know is grappling.
    Except that you could argue that for point #

    2.) You can't train for reality with proper resistance and have it be legal, because otherwise you'd be committing assault obviously. So you put rules in place to protect the trainees - so then how is that any different from a sport. Not to mention the sports promote basics - if you can't do basics in a simulation how do you think you can do it in real life?

    3.) Just because the ground is covered in whatever, doesn't mean you can't be sent there. Still a necessary skill set.

    4.) ANY single skill set alone against multiple opponents is going to be a disadvantage, because the majority of the time you are fucked regardless of what you know or train (unless it is gun-fu and you are packing). Also, there are self defense techniques (ground as well as standing grappling) in most grappling systems, it's just that the focus is mostly on sport. If one would do the former, the grappling might have more utility in a multiple opponent encounter - ie you might survive for 10 sec rather than 5.

    Leave a comment:


  • EternalRage
    replied
    Originally posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Heh, we should compile a list of the most common defences for dead, non-contact/striking-only training in the MAs and sticky it as a warning to others.

    Some off the top of my head.

    1. Our stuff is too deadly to spar with.
    2. Our stuff is reality - not sport.
    3. Grappling is all well and good but what about grappling on the street when it's covered with broken glass and AIDS needles?
    4. Grappling is all well and good - but just you just try that shit against multiple opponents!
    5. Of course you could take me down and armbar me - but then I'd punch you in the balls, poke your eyes or jam my finger in your arsehole and then you'd be in trouble!
    6. Our stuff is hundreds/thousands of years old. It wouldn't still be around if it didn't work.
    lol

    7. it's taught to the national army of ________. so it must be good

    Leave a comment:


  • Kentucky Fried Chokin
    replied
    I think Kesting probably knows more about Bullshido than any of us. He's one of those guys that spent 30 years in MA doing everything. All kinds of kung-fu and karate. He gave a great interview for the fightworks podcast (find it yourself) where he talks about his unhappiness with a lot of TMAs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hesperus
    replied
    Try striking against multiple opponents.

    Or, better yet, try grappling when a member of the numerically advantaged party.

    Grappling is even more important when there are multiple opponents.

    Leave a comment:


  • The Twitcher
    replied
    Originally posted by Larus marinus View Post
    Heh, we should compile a list of the most common defences for dead, non-contact/striking-only training in the MAs and sticky it as a warning to others.

    Some off the top of my head.

    1. Our stuff is too deadly to spar with.
    2. Our stuff is reality - not sport.
    3. Grappling is all well and good but what about grappling on the street when it's covered with broken glass and AIDS needles?
    4. Grappling is all well and good - but just you just try that shit against multiple opponents!
    5. Of course you could take me down and armbar me - but then I'd punch you in the balls, poke your eyes or jam my finger in your arsehole and then you'd be in trouble!
    6. Our stuff is hundreds/thousands of years old. It wouldn't still be around if it didn't work.
    Those are valid points (the AIDS needle one is gratuitous though), especially point #4 if all you know is grappling.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larus marinus
    replied
    - This is the same stuff that Machida uses in UFC. (well, if not already - then they soon will be pulling that one out)

    - Boztepe! Boztepe! BOZTEPE! Boz-fucking-tepe! Boztepe. Boztepe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Demon Eyes
    replied
    "Our school trains in the real (Insert MA Style). It has a direct lineage to (Insert semi-famous MA instructor). Our (Insert MA Style) works. There is no need to pressure test it as it has already been done by (Insert semi-famous MA instructor). He/She won (Insert large number) Street Fights."

    Leave a comment:


  • SaintHamish
    replied
    - Competition for us is pointless. After the first death, we will no longer be able to compete so we dont even bother......

    - MMA has a ruleset, we dont........

    Leave a comment:


  • Larus marinus
    replied
    - If I can do this (WHACK!) to a piece of wood, or a brick, or a coconut, then I'd have no problem winning a real fight!

    Leave a comment:


  • Lindz
    replied
    Sparring is not fighting becaus when you spar you sort of go back and forth each doing your thing. But when ou fight you have to just go in and do your damage. Quick and decisive.

    HMM Can't quite remember how that one goes. I think I'm starting to repress the memories :D

    Leave a comment:


  • Larus marinus
    replied
    - The guy who founded the style fought and won deathmatches with this stuff!

    - How could you hope to ever get a technique into your muscle memory if the guy you're doing it on won't let you complete it properly?

    Leave a comment:


  • Lindz
    replied
    Sparring teaches bad habits, like letting go after they tap and not taking the dirty shot.

    Leave a comment:


  • Larus marinus
    replied
    Originally posted by Demon Eyes View Post
    Unfortunately, his views on the current standing of the martial arts community seems to optimistic. There's still just as much bullshit today and just as many people willing to believe it and defend it.

    Other than that, nice little write up.
    Heh, we should compile a list of the most common defences for dead, non-contact/striking-only training in the MAs and sticky it as a warning to others.

    Some off the top of my head.

    1. Our stuff is too deadly to spar with.
    2. Our stuff is reality - not sport.
    3. Grappling is all well and good but what about grappling on the street when it's covered with broken glass and AIDS needles?
    4. Grappling is all well and good - but just you just try that shit against multiple opponents!
    5. Of course you could take me down and armbar me - but then I'd punch you in the balls, poke your eyes or jam my finger in your arsehole and then you'd be in trouble!
    6. Our stuff is hundreds/thousands of years old. It wouldn't still be around if it didn't work.

    Leave a comment:

Collapse

Edit this module to specify a template to display.

Working...
X