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    #16
    Originally posted by baardamuu View Post
    I'm describing the opposite situation where the heavier stronger opponent has the choke. Specifically how do you break it? Did you get the female Judo practitioner in a rear naked choke? I realize the point is to not get in that position but my question is what are BJJ or other methods for getting out?
    Stop trying to theorise things in writing and go and do it! You'll get a better idea of how it all works in one class than months full of postings. You need to be shown how it would work.

    There's always a way out of things...it's just a matter of knowing how it gets together.

    :guitar:Seriously.
    Daniel: I don't know if I know enough karate.

    Miyagi: Feeling correct.

    Daniel: You sure know how to make a guy feel confident.

    Miyagi: You trust the quality of what you know, not quantity.

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      #17
      When I just started rolling, and was obviously put in all manner of chokes and submissions by everyone all the time. I would ask similar questions. I would say, "how do I get out of that ?". Often the answer was, "don't get caught in the first place". This can be disappointing to hear as a beginner, but it's the truth. Yes, there are counters to everything ( and counters to those ), but there is also a point of no return. The point
      where you go from having a fighting chance, to being well and truly fucked.

      The nice thing about bjj ( and other alive grappling arts ) is that after a few months, your body starts to feel when a specific attack is coming. You can only be choked out so many times before your body starts to pre-emt the attack.
      This is where counters and reversals really shine, because you are able to block/frustrate/reverse some of the fundamental things needed for your opponent to finish the submission. For example ( using RNC ), you roll onto one of his legs to that he cannot get the second hook in, and at the same time you protect your neck and control his arms ( and then work out of the position ). Now he cannot slip the move all the way in ( at least not straight away ), and he is now thinking about losing the position, so you have a little time to work.
      If a submission is already all the way in you just don't have the time or leverage to get out before your lights go out or something snaps.

      One of my bjj instructors ( just graded to brown ) has defended his national title for the last 3 years. He also happens to be about 70kg and routinely cleans the floor with bigger dudes in the open weight divisions. I've seen him hold his own against my coach ( 105kg black belt ) on a regular basis. So I do believe the smaller guy can hold his own with a bigger opponent. Of course size and weight will make a difference, but the smaller guy can certainly prevail.

      Once on the ground she could get some sort of lock on me maybe but she's not going to take me down.
      I think you'd be surprised what a small, well trained woman can do. Go to a class and get some experience. It's the only way you'll really know.
      Last edited by beardedtaco; 11/26/2009 12:41am, .

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        #18
        Originally posted by baardamuu View Post
        One of my reasons for the OP is so many instructors over the years teaching these "peeling" and "plucking" techniques to break a choke and other grips. I got to instructor level and was supposed to teach this stuff and didn't want to because it doesn't freaking work, even though the rest of the curriculum was sound. If I as an instructor can;t execute it (or any of the other instructors or higher belts) against a stronger attacker the technique is bullshit. People would be reduced to trying to grab individual fingers or rake knuckles or other such bullshit.
        If we're talking about a thrust choke (often charmingly known in BJJ as a 'rape' choke) or an un-tutored school-yard headlock then in BJJ you'll learn to escape and counter them pretty easily. The defences don't tend to centre on attacking their hands, but their balance. Here are two classic BJJ bear hug counters, for example:
        http://bjj.org/techniques/erintoughill/t2-1/
        http://bjj.org/techniques/erintoughill/t2-3/

        If we're talking about properly applied chokes that actually work, like a guillotine or an RNC, then if you let a heavier and equally skilled opponents lock them in you're probably finished.

        P.S. Like everyone else says, the best thing you could do is stop theorizing and go train some BJJ.
        Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 11/26/2009 6:23am, .

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
          If we're talking about a thrust choke (often charmingly known in BJJ as a 'rape' choke) or an un-tutored school-yard headlock then in BJJ you'll learn to escape and counter them pretty easily. The defences don't tend to centre on attacking their hands, but their balance. Here are two classic BJJ bear hug counters, for example:
          http://bjj.org/techniques/erintoughill/t2-1/
          http://bjj.org/techniques/erintoughill/t2-3/

          If we're talking about properly applied chokes that actually work, like a guillotine or an RNC, then if you let a heavier and equally skilled opponents lock them in you're probably finished.

          P.S. Like everyone else says, the best thing you could do is stop theorizing and go train some BJJ.
          Thanks. I know a variation of the first defense, but in number 2 do you really want the attacker's knee positioned right below your crotch? The girl looks tough as hell.

          Comment


            #20
            She's hilarious too. All of her instructional vids and articles and stuff have the best facial expressions.
            And having your attackers knee right near your crotch from that position is no big deal. They can't really attack the crotch effectively without giving you an opportunity to escape.
            sigpic

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by baardamuu View Post
              Thanks. I know a variation of the first defense, but in number 2 do you really want the attacker's knee positioned right below your crotch?
              Been there, done that. Twice, one IRL. It works.

              Comment


                #22
                ...that's why I stopped training with a crotch cup. Make sure I'm doing those moves right and not getting my nuts in the way. They (nuts) *can* get in the way, but if the technique is done right, it's no problem at all. You can kinda extend to the side of your thigh as well, like for an arm bar.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by baardamuu View Post
                  How does BJJ teach dominating a heavier and stronger opponent and what techniques do you all know to get out of the grip of heavier stronger opponent.
                  The problem is that size does matter. In order to overcome size, you need to have a skill advantage, to make up for your lack of comparable mass. Skill takes a long time to develop.

                  That unfortunately means that if you're small, you're going to go through a long period of getting squashed by bigger people. Eventually you'll progress sufficiently that you can at least handle large noobs, but whenever somebody big has some skill, it's going to be a problem (until you're able to advance to a level where that skill gap becomes significant).



                  My general response to the "I'm small" question, as per FAQ:

                  At 5'7 and 64kg (143lbs), I'm almost always the smaller guy, so can sympathise. Against bigger guys, you're probably going to spend a lot of time on the bottom, especially early on. So you might as well treat that as an opportunity rather than an irritation, working your escapes every chance you get.

                  Once you get good at escaping, you'll be far less worried about making an attack, because you'll be confident you can recover if you mess it up. In other works, by building a good defence, you have a solid foundation to build a good offence.

                  Also, remember that in competition, you'll be up against people your own size. After sparring with all the big people in class, that is going to feel much easier.

                  Finally, take a look at this and this thread, along with this and this article for some further ideas.



                  And as you're new, I'll put up the usual BJJ noob post too:

                  You might find this BJJ Beginner FAQ useful, as a new student in BJJ.

                  As I mention in that FAQ, for further reading on BJJ, I'd recommend the following threads:

                  Training, Stagnation and Tapping

                  Maximizing what you get out of rolling

                  Protecting Yourself During Sparring

                  BJJ Rolling Guide for Beginners
                  Grappling Basic Principles

                  Advice for Noobs

                  10 Quick Tips for White Belts

                  First Day Lesson

                  Fundamental 5

                  Obvious Epiphanies


                  And the following articles:

                  Starting BJJ Classes
                  Nuggets of Advice
                  Beginning BJJ
                  (free e-course and e-book)
                  The Journey to Blue Belt

                  BJJ Grrl's Dos and Don'ts
                  Getting Started
                  BJJ Beginner FAQ, Artemis BJJ, GrappleThon.org (BJJ for Charity)

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