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  • honest_truth
    replied
    Originally posted by Whacker View Post
    <slight derail>

    Errmmm.. No offense mate, but that coach sounds like a bit of a retard.

    Before one does anything resembling throws, takedowns, or anything leading up to groundwork, even if it doesn't actually involve executing the full technique, one must learn proper breakfalls. That was one of the first things I ever learned at my original KF school. That was one of the first questions I was asked when I visited maofas's judo school. That was one of the first questions asked the first time we worked on throws at my current gym. "Do you know how to breakfall?"

    </slight derail>
    None taken, because to some extent i agree.
    Before you teach standing sweeps you should teach how to breakfall JUST IN CASE, also, doing it on a matted area to be able to safely have some resistance drilled in is necessary, thats why i currently cross train in submission grappling to make sure i can breakfall properly.

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  • Whacker
    replied
    Originally posted by honest_truth View Post
    2) One of the guys at my current club was jackassing during the training, we were drilling clinch techniques where we underhook a thrown knee and then sweep the other leg while lifting the knee and pulling down/sideways on their head with the other hand.

    So this dickbutt was paired with me who actually tried to throw me to the ground, bear in mind we have no pads on the ground and none of us knew how to break falls and the trainer himself told us to work technique and reflexes, dont go all the way, yet Mr Hardass still tried throwing me and every time he did that i cranked his neck all the way down to his dick, then we switched partners and he multiple times threw the other unlucky guy down.

    Our coach was pissed so he made him spar one of our amateur boxers who knocked him down.
    <slight derail>

    Errmmm.. No offense mate, but that coach sounds like a bit of a retard.

    Before one does anything resembling throws, takedowns, or anything leading up to groundwork, even if it doesn't actually involve executing the full technique, one must learn proper breakfalls. That was one of the first things I ever learned at my original KF school. That was one of the first questions I was asked when I visited maofas's judo school. That was one of the first questions asked the first time we worked on throws at my current gym. "Do you know how to breakfall?"

    </slight derail>

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  • honest_truth
    replied
    perfectly justifiable to send enforcers, even in belt testing, your job as a student is to demonstrate the proper technique, speed and reflexes of a good fighter, not beating the shit out of someone, especially someone you can power through. Leave the fighting to competition where you try to knock/slam/pull-limbs of the other guy out.

    kind of related 2 stories:

    1) Back when i was doing shorin-ryu we had the same light touch sparring rules (thankfully continuous), however myself then a brown belt and another black belt were physically the biggest guys there and so our sparring sometimes was knockdown style and we went home with bruises. Our coach, not liking the "rack a dishiprin" we displayed made us spar highschool girls that were smaller, weaker and less skilled so we learned how to control ourselves, i hate sparring women FYI.

    2) One of the guys at my current club was jackassing during the training, we were drilling clinch techniques where we underhook a thrown knee and then sweep the other leg while lifting the knee and pulling down/sideways on their head with the other hand.

    So this dickbutt was paired with me who actually tried to throw me to the ground, bear in mind we have no pads on the ground and none of us knew how to break falls and the trainer himself told us to work technique and reflexes, dont go all the way, yet Mr Hardass still tried throwing me and every time he did that i cranked his neck all the way down to his dick, then we switched partners and he multiple times threw the other unlucky guy down.

    Our coach was pissed so he made him spar one of our amateur boxers who knocked him down.

    Leave a comment:


  • permahudef
    replied
    I say it's up to the instructor or style's discretion.
    -If the instructor/style wants to emphasize the ability to spar without getting out of control, then they should allow vast physical differences during grading.
    -If the instructor/style does not want to emphasize the ability to spar without getting out of control, then they should not allow vast physical differences during grading.

    I think that given the scenario, use of the enforcer was well done.

    Back in my Shito-Ryu days I had problems keeping the contact low (Touch to the body, almost touch, but not actually touch, to the head). I was given pushups, then a more skilled/heavy sparring partner, then I sparred my sensei. I was allowed to (attempt) to make contact while taking some solid shots. I had to take a knee because one shot dazed me too much to remain standing. Although I saw it as more of a reward than punishment, I'm sure others would see it as punishment.

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  • Whacker
    replied
    Originally posted by dethklok View Post
    I think that in the end it was justified. The only problem I see here is that the instructors should have not paired them up in the first place. If doing a belt test I feel that your partner should be of equal weight and skill class. It should be treated the same as pairing up in a competition.
    Disagree here, because it's about demonstrating real self control, as others have stated.

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  • dethklok
    replied
    I think that in the end it was justified. The only problem I see here is that the instructors should have not paired them up in the first place. If doing a belt test I feel that your partner should be of equal weight and skill class. It should be treated the same as pairing up in a competition.

    Leave a comment:


  • MMAMickey
    replied
    he's a dick, it would be irresponsible to think of him as anything else.. but putting girls against boys for gradings or competition is a peeve of mine.. only because the guy (when he's not a dick) normally will underperform

    Obviously this is not always the case but most men (even if the girl is huge) have a psychological block when it comes to fighting women, regardless of how good the woman is.

    Leave a comment:


  • maofas
    replied
    Originally posted by MrGalt View Post
    So my question is, is sending in an enforcer like this a dick move, or is this kind of blatant attitude correction the kind of growth experience people are supposed to get in the martial arts?
    Assuming you were referring to girl #2 was the "enforcer", absolutely not a dick move. Sometimes certain people need to be put in their place, whether it's being humbled via getting the shit kicked out of you by a more skilled girl or being reminded that sometimes you'll be the smaller person depending on the control of a much larger sparring partner.

    If a guy is a pretty OK fighter for his rank but he's still a dick, does he deserve the belt anyway, or should being a good sportsman be part of the qualifications?
    Depends on your instructor/club's perspective I suppose. I would say, and most JMA will agree, that character development (through hard work and pushing your limits) is an important part of the process. Personally, I would not promote a dick past a certain point. I would, however, do everything within my ability to teach him to not be a dick because I would want him to succeed too.

    If a club loses a hard-charging jerk, does the utility of having a tough partner available outweigh the liability of having someone who can't attenuate his game based on his partner's size and strength or ability?
    The liability outweighs the utility of the jerk in most cases, because the jerk will injure other people and induce new students to not stick around.

    I know in an ideal world we'd all get to spar people of the same height and weight class who are just a little better than we are so that we push ourselves, but in reality sometimes you have to step it down a notch for the sake of the club.
    Sparring is not a fight, no matter how hard. In class you're trying to apply what you drill, on a test your goal should be to push the other person, to bring them to the brink of quitting, but you should avoid injuring them at all costs. It's never good to lose a training partner due to injury and it's even worse to break a training partner's spirit/make them gun-shy.

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  • Demon Eyes
    replied
    This has become one of my favorite stories. Thank you, and give my thanks to the instructor for taking such a course of action against him.

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    Originally posted by MrGalt View Post


    So my question is, is sending in an enforcer like this a dick move, or is this kind of blatant attitude correction the kind of growth experience people are supposed to get in the martial arts? If a guy is a pretty OK fighter for his rank but he's still a dick, does he deserve the belt anyway, or should being a good sportsman be part of the qualifications? If a club loses a hard-charging jerk, does the utility of having a tough partner available outweigh the liability of having someone who can't attenuate his game based on his partner's size and strength or ability? I know in an ideal world we'd all get to spar people of the same height and weight class who are just a little better than we are so that we push ourselves, but in reality sometimes you have to step it down a notch for the sake of the club.

    Maybe what I'm really asking is, if I ever have to spar this very scary high school girl, who will send flowers to my hospital room?
    You weren't privy to the conversation were you? I am asking in all honesty. If so, what did the student say?

    I am asking because, maybe the instructor saw/read/heard something in the conversation that warranted this action.

    Oh and as everyone else said yes, from your description, it sounds perfectly warranted. Unless you (impersonal) larp, there is only so much you can learn from drilling and pad work. Some of the most arrogant people I have met, in Martial Arts, have never been hit in an unscripted alien environment.

    Leave a comment:


  • Don Gwinn
    replied
    The brothers on Car Talk tell the story of a professor at MIT who failed one of them--I forget which one--in Physics (I think.) Anyway, the way they tell the story, he told Tommy, "Mr. Magliozzi, I am going to do you a very great favor. I am going to give you an F."

    Sometimes failing a student is the best thing you can do for them--and sometimes, they need their faces rubbed in it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rivington
    replied
    Grown men being humiliated by plucky high school girls is the basis of the whole of contemporary Japanese popular culture. Dude had to know what would happen, and should just be happy that she didn't also turn into a giant robot or a tentacle-rape demon or something.

    Leave a comment:


  • ironcastknight
    replied
    I'm going with the majority and giving the situation a big thumbs up. It is my opinion that one should always adjust to the level of their opponent when in a non-competitive environment, so kneeing a skinny highschool girl in the face is a bit of a no. Plus, having another highschool girl come in and beat the jerk into the floor is delicious, delicious poetic justice.

    As for the second question, maybe, if you're lucky, she'll bring the flowers herself.

    Leave a comment:


  • Neo Sigma
    replied
    If a guy is a pretty OK fighter for his rank but he's still a dick, does he deserve the belt anyway, or should being a good sportsman be part of the qualifications?
    Bullying someone significantly smaller and lighter than him doesn't really constitute being a "pretty okay fighter", it just makes him a dick. It's a belt test, you're supposed to show your grasp of the techniques, not your ability to push around someone that you have a huge physical advantage over. Any braindead idiot can do that. He had it coming and he deserved to fail.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs
    replied

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