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    #16
    perfectly justifiable to send enforcers, even in belt testing, your job as a student is to demonstrate the proper technique, speed and reflexes of a good fighter, not beating the shit out of someone, especially someone you can power through. Leave the fighting to competition where you try to knock/slam/pull-limbs of the other guy out.

    kind of related 2 stories:

    1) Back when i was doing shorin-ryu we had the same light touch sparring rules (thankfully continuous), however myself then a brown belt and another black belt were physically the biggest guys there and so our sparring sometimes was knockdown style and we went home with bruises. Our coach, not liking the "rack a dishiprin" we displayed made us spar highschool girls that were smaller, weaker and less skilled so we learned how to control ourselves, i hate sparring women FYI.

    2) One of the guys at my current club was jackassing during the training, we were drilling clinch techniques where we underhook a thrown knee and then sweep the other leg while lifting the knee and pulling down/sideways on their head with the other hand.

    So this dickbutt was paired with me who actually tried to throw me to the ground, bear in mind we have no pads on the ground and none of us knew how to break falls and the trainer himself told us to work technique and reflexes, dont go all the way, yet Mr Hardass still tried throwing me and every time he did that i cranked his neck all the way down to his dick, then we switched partners and he multiple times threw the other unlucky guy down.

    Our coach was pissed so he made him spar one of our amateur boxers who knocked him down.

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      #17
      Originally posted by honest_truth View Post
      2) One of the guys at my current club was jackassing during the training, we were drilling clinch techniques where we underhook a thrown knee and then sweep the other leg while lifting the knee and pulling down/sideways on their head with the other hand.

      So this dickbutt was paired with me who actually tried to throw me to the ground, bear in mind we have no pads on the ground and none of us knew how to break falls and the trainer himself told us to work technique and reflexes, dont go all the way, yet Mr Hardass still tried throwing me and every time he did that i cranked his neck all the way down to his dick, then we switched partners and he multiple times threw the other unlucky guy down.

      Our coach was pissed so he made him spar one of our amateur boxers who knocked him down.
      <slight derail>

      Errmmm.. No offense mate, but that coach sounds like a bit of a retard.

      Before one does anything resembling throws, takedowns, or anything leading up to groundwork, even if it doesn't actually involve executing the full technique, one must learn proper breakfalls. That was one of the first things I ever learned at my original KF school. That was one of the first questions I was asked when I visited maofas's judo school. That was one of the first questions asked the first time we worked on throws at my current gym. "Do you know how to breakfall?"

      </slight derail>

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        #18
        Originally posted by Whacker View Post
        <slight derail>

        Errmmm.. No offense mate, but that coach sounds like a bit of a retard.

        Before one does anything resembling throws, takedowns, or anything leading up to groundwork, even if it doesn't actually involve executing the full technique, one must learn proper breakfalls. That was one of the first things I ever learned at my original KF school. That was one of the first questions I was asked when I visited maofas's judo school. That was one of the first questions asked the first time we worked on throws at my current gym. "Do you know how to breakfall?"

        </slight derail>
        None taken, because to some extent i agree.
        Before you teach standing sweeps you should teach how to breakfall JUST IN CASE, also, doing it on a matted area to be able to safely have some resistance drilled in is necessary, thats why i currently cross train in submission grappling to make sure i can breakfall properly.

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          #19
          IMO, the main question is how sparring is treated at your school.

          If FC sparring is normal, then the instructor should have told the girl to train harder.

          If it's not, then the dude who gave her the knee should have to endure some extra drill training to set his attitude straight.

          In general, this is one of the reasons why I don't like to spar with women. If the fight gets intense, and you go for a KO, you're regarded as a dick.

          The guy who didn't get his belt most likely gave the schoolgirl an important lesson: That, no matter how hard she trains, she probably will never be able to defeat a man. Given how many women run around with a false sense of security because they do cardio kickboxing once a week, he might even have done her a favor.

          Well, maybe that's just me, but I don't think people should do FC MAs if they are afraid of getting their butts whooped. And if women enter the ring against men, they should not be deluded about what to expect.
          www.childsplaycharity.org

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            #20
            Rafe, there is no such thing as full contact sparring, there is hard sparring and then there is fighting. You always have to tone down the level depending on weight in hard sparring.

            This situation comes down to whether there really was a weight difference between the guy and girl. If there was a sizable difference, guy was a douche and the fail was justified. If not, the instructor was a douche and totally disrespected the girl's fighting spirit by bringing stupid 'women are frail and no one should hit them even in a full contact fight' mentality to the grading. I've seen both of these situations and the second one more often to be honest.

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              #21
              Yeah, we agree there, and I see we had the same experience.

              Most dojos I have seen had the problem that there wasn't enough room or members for a female training group, and so girls trained with guys - and it always led to problems like the one described above.

              The best thing IMO one can do as a man when sparring with a woman is communicate with her about that; I personally always ask how hard we shall spar, and then adjust accordingly.
              www.childsplaycharity.org

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                #22
                Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                You weren't privy to the conversation were you? I am asking in all honesty. If so, what did the student say?

                I am asking because, maybe the instructor saw/read/heard something in the conversation that warranted this action.

                Oh and as everyone else said yes, from your description, it sounds perfectly warranted. Unless you (impersonal) larp, there is only so much you can learn from drilling and pad work. Some of the most arrogant people I have met, in Martial Arts, have never been hit in an unscripted alien environment.
                The conversation was one-way, and it was right out in the open across a distance of about ten meters. This was grumbly old man Kansai-ben, so I can't give a word for word translation and may have been confused on a few phrases, but the salient points were that this is was a test, not a competition, that everybody was supposed to actually finish the test today, and that nobody will want to train with you if you act like a jerk. Responses weren't actually invited.

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                  #23
                  There was a pretty significant weight difference, although the heights were pretty equal. We spar hard with women, but I don't see a problem with adjusting your contact level depending on your partner's size and even gender. I have my own problems with sparring women using knockdown rules by virtue of the fact that I can't really bring myself to punch a girl in the breast area (I tried it once, and the sensation was unpleasant), and we don't use hands to the head in class. I'm left with low kicks or sniping head kicks or reaching WAY down for punches since I'm 6 feet tall.

                  In a perfect world we'd all get to spar someone who is essentially a clone of ourselves, but about 10% better so we'd always have something to push for. In reality it doesn't work. This is still karate class, with women and old men and overworked salarymen who actually choose NOT to head to the nearest pachinko parlor or bar at the end of their 70 hour week. I wouldn't want to lose those people. The K-1 gym is right downstairs for anybody who wants to go pro, but this wasn't a competition.

                  As for how sparring is treated in our school, it's what we do. Just about all we do. Our 90 minute classes are about 70 minutes of sparring, and we rotate throughout the room with whoever happens to be there. We're constantly adjusting to different-sized opponents. I'd be lucky to run into one or two people in a given class who are slightly larger than I am, which may put my training at a disadvantage, but if nobody wants to train with me because I'm that guy who tries to break 80 pound high school kids, I bet I'll get even less training done.

                  I remember a thread a while ago about how difficult it is to demonstrate your superiority in striking compared to grappling. I fail at search function though. Sure, you can just jump up and knock somebody out in class to show that you're a beast, but it's not really educational (past the first time or two). The harder way is to actually outclass the person by doing it faster and cleaner, by frustrating his attacks with good defense, and by making it look easy. If you do that to somebody smaller than you are, I don't think anybody has a reason to object. If you can't do that to somebody smaller than you are, then all you have is size, and MA isn't for building size, it's for training skill.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Sang View Post
                    If not, the instructor was a douche and totally disrespected the girl's fighting spirit by bringing stupid 'women are frail and no one should hit them even in a full contact fight' mentality to the grading. I've seen both of these situations and the second one more often to be honest.
                    The girl continued the test and had two more hard-contact matches. People continued to hit her hard, and she continued to stay sharp. Most groups I've trained in would have had her sit out. I think that she showed fine fighting spirit.

                    Don't forget that in a full contact competition she would have been fighting in a women's division within her weight class and nobody would be considered a jerk regardless of what she got hit with. I think we train more with competition in mind than for "the street" so whether she can handle large male attackers doesn't seem to be quite the issue it has been in most TMA schools I've seen.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by MrGalt View Post
                      The girl continued the test and had two more hard-contact matches. People continued to hit her hard, and she continued to stay sharp. Most groups I've trained in would have had her sit out. I think that she showed fine fighting spirit.

                      I'm assuming she (the chick that got kneed in the face) got her rank, right?

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by animlmthr View Post
                        I'm assuming she (the chick that got kneed in the face) got her rank, right?
                        Yeah, she passed, to much applause. Her strikes were technically better than those of the guy who kneed her. Which might also go a long way toward explaining both why he failed and why he decided to muscle her into the knee in the first place.

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                          #27
                          I brutally TKO'd a girl at my gym today, worst feeling ever. I was going around 10-15% (big size/skill difference) and she threw a body kick so i cross checked it and turned the check into a very weak teep before placing it down. Unfortunately she was rushing in at that exact time and impaled herself on the teep right in the solar plexus. She went down wheezing for air and couldn't breathe properly for a full minute.

                          I think the only thing that saved me from a lynching was that she is the best friend of my girlfriend and didn't seem to take it badly (we'll know in time). Worst part is i jokingly told her i was going to give her a hiding before the round :psyduck:. New rule: no teeps against women.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Sang View Post
                            I brutally TKO'd a girl at my gym today, worst feeling ever. I was going around 10-15% (big size/skill difference) and she threw a body kick so i cross checked it and turned the check into a very weak teep before placing it down. Unfortunately she was rushing in at that exact time and impaled herself on the teep right in the solar plexus. She went down wheezing for air and couldn't breathe properly for a full minute.

                            I think the only thing that saved me from a lynching was that she is the best friend of my girlfriend and didn't seem to take it badly (we'll know in time). Worst part is i jokingly told her i was going to give her a hiding before the round :psyduck:. New rule: no teeps against women.
                            We just got a new wave of new students. I always have to spend some of my 'defence' time getting them to ACTUALLY try to hit me. Last week was teeps. Something just didn't feel right. So when they threw the teep, I just stood there solid. They hit the front of my hip. I tap my solar plexus, say "Put it right in there" and continue. Second time they still miss, I remind them to actually kick me. Third time seems to work though.

                            It's like this in reverse:
                            YouTube- LIVING COLOUR - Jim Carey-Karate Instructor

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by MrGalt View Post
                              Yeah, she passed, to much applause. Her strikes were technically better than those of the guy who kneed her. Which might also go a long way toward explaining both why he failed and why he decided to muscle her into the knee in the first place.
                              That little girl with loads of heart today, will probably be tomorrows tough chic enforcer...

                              Comment


                                #30
                                That test was apparently pretty brutal for the upper ranks. My buddy who is a professional wrestler and shootfighter failed his shodan test the same day after getting knocked down in his tenth match by an English black belt about a foot and a half (not exaggerating) taller than he is.

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