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Official MMA curriculum, good idea or not?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Lights Out View Post
    Pretty much that is my major concern regarding this issue.

    I wasn't so much thinking about making a cast-in-stone curriculum as having a way to certify teachers in order to ensure quality.

    But I concede that it is hardly possible to have one without the other.

    EDIT: And yes, I've read Bruce Lee's Tao of Jeet Kun Do many years ago.
    Not a bad Idea, you could do it if you start your own MA Org. / school / franchise.

    Then you could have certified instructors / testing, and tournaments where you would have a great deal of quality control regarding the talent for your fighters.

    The biggest hurdle would be finding a solid group of instructors to join your org, and also a decent advertising campaign to recruit students. (I'm guessing these are the hurdles for every school)

    If you've got the connections and the drive, then I say go for it! I'd tune in to watch. A bit of integrity and quality never hurt anybody, and what better advertising is there for MA than good sport fights?

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      #17
      Originally posted by Mr. Machette View Post
      If you've got the connections and the drive, then I say go for it! I'd tune in to watch. A bit of integrity and quality never hurt anybody, and what better advertising is there for MA than good sport fights?
      Whoa! not so fast!

      I don't have the time, money or connections to start such an enterprise.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Lights Out View Post
        Whoa! not so fast!

        I don't have the time, money or connections to start such an enterprise.
        It all starts with an idea.

        Right now, the best way to move forward would just be to find like minds. The time / money/ connections may come latter on. First you need to develop the idea, then gather your fellows. These are the first brick in your foundation.

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          #19
          There does exist such an "MMA Curriculum" down here in Australia, which incidentally is quite new.

          It is called "John Will's Alpha MMA Curriculum"
          (http://www.alphamma.com/) and I have been training in it for a few months now. Its a system devised by John Will and David Meyer, although really taught according to the interpretations of whatever instructor you choose to train under. The system is not designed to prepare athletes for the Octagon so much as a self defense system using MMA concepts. Hence, concepts such as maneuvering around and using the cage to your advantage are not taught. This is not to say we do not train alive, however.

          My thoughts so far is that, being developed by a predominantly BJJ oriented martial artist (John Will), the teaching emphasis is on grappling rather than striking (my particular instructor is also predominantly a BJJ instructor, holding ranks in both BJJ and JJJ). For grappling we do underhooks, single/double leg takedowns, sprawls and no Gi BJJ groundwork. The striking is more "striking for grapplers", similar to kickboxing but with more weight put on the front foot. We also do a lot of "the shell", a cover up position to use when going in for the clinch and takedown, but of less use when trading blows from regular striking range.
          The sparring we do is without protective gear and strikes are non-contact, but takedowns and submissions are done as normal, with full resistance in an alive setting.

          One evident pro of a system like this over straight BJJ or wrestling, judo, etc, is the covering up to defend against strikes while incorporating takedowns and grappling, such as in the drill where we go in for the double leg "under fire", and thus get into the habit of keeping covered up.

          However, if you want to become a competent striker the better option would be to train in kickboxing where sparring is done with contact and protective gear. I have also started training with the kickboxing coach at my school now, where I am able to do this. This particular coach has not only competed in kickboxing matches but also under an MMA ruleset with grappling and submissions. As he is aware of my interest and training in MMA, much of our sparring is done incorporating striking with takedowns and submissions also. So even with a full MMA curriculum out there, I still found I have the need to cross train, to avoid falling into the "jack of all trades, master of none" trap.

          One could develop plenty of competence MMA wise purely by cross training kickboxing and sumbission wrestling or BJJ, however, training in a system where the "range" of combat changes all the time (striking range becoming clinching/takedown range, etc), requires a special skillset (dirty boxing, for example) and fitness level on its own, MMA classes as such can be quite useful. Ideally though, an athlete will progress at a faster rate and go further by taking all 3 (a striking style, a grappling style as well as a style that incorporates them and adds something of its own).

          So back to the OP's original point, yes there is a curriculum out there, however, realistically not all schools will follow it (in particular those training fighters for competition), and it really boils down to the knowledge and skillset of your particular instructor/coach (the fact that what I'm learning is part of an official curriculum probably doesn't make a lot of difference to the quality of the instruction). Of course it makes more sense to have a curriculum if the MMA system is taught as a self defence system rather than trained for competition, where the logical choice would be to find an ex MMA fighter who's running an MMA gym and train there, take up and compete in boxing, wrestling, etc.

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            #20
            I think it is better to not codify it in order to prevent it becoming the future classical mess.

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              #21
              Originally posted by Lights Out View Post
              .

              I was wondering if a federation and an official curriculum would benefit of hurt MMA, in terms of spreading and standarizing the teaching.

              There ara a bunch of styles out there with a standarized curriculum and so far, it hasn't hurt them.

              but most of those we dont respect either....

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                #22
                yes and no, i understand what you mean however, often MMA is taught as crappy kickboxing with crappy BJJ and wrestling. There should be a recommended curriculum but not from an "official" governing body.

                Here is what i would include, based on nothing but my own assy opinion:

                striking with hands, shins, knees and elbows.
                MT clinch and how to knee/elbow from there.
                Wrestling clinch and how to do basic hip throws and Osotogari
                how to do wrestling pickups and slams
                sprawling and shooting
                Gnp and basic BJJ such as armbar, triangle, shoulder locks and RNC.

                however this has already been covered for the most part in this book:


                The only way this might help is by bringing more competition where you live against other fighters, call M1 and have them do Spain VS Russia then have the red devil club say "sup" in the rings.

                Unless the fighters/trainers there start training in other clubs that are more serious, fight on international circuit and then go back to teach in Spain, you will continue having such crap floating around.

                The idea is good but it should be implemented by natural selection, not laws and government.

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                  #23
                  If a certain curriculum was laid down and a quality control of some sort were in place it would help cut out all the fraud places but in the same time it would stall the development of MMA.

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                    #24
                    Giving MMA a standarized curriculum or a belt system won't work, since it is "Mixed Martial Arts" and thus these things are just against the nature of MMA.

                    What you could do is establish a minimal ranking for the teachers in the seperate arts that can we used in MMA in accordanse with their respective organisations. Than establishing the minimal art combinations that a student has to study to gain the capability to fight under MMA rules and creating a control body/federation to check that "MMA" teachers hold this rank.

                    Example minimal ranking for teachers:
                    -----------------------------------
                    Striking arts:
                    ------------
                    - Kyokushin and offshoots: 3rd Dan
                    - Muay Thai: Kru
                    - Savate: Silver Gloves
                    - Kickboxing: state champion (if there are no rankings in the system)
                    - Boxing: state champion
                    - Sanda: State champion

                    Grappling arts:
                    --------------
                    - Judo: 3rd Dan
                    - Sport-SAMBO: state champion
                    - Bjj: 1st degree BB
                    - Wrestling: state champignon

                    Mixed Systems:
                    ---------------
                    - Combat-SAMBO: state champion

                    * there will be other arts that can put in the above list, but you get the idea*

                    Than the minimal art requirements to fight MMA:
                    -----------------------------------------------
                    - Combat-Sambo
                    - Muay Thai - Sport-SAMBO
                    - Savate - Judo - Bjj
                    - Boxing - Wrestling - Kyokushin
                    - Muay Thai - Bjj
                    - Sanda - Shooto - Wrestling
                    - etc....

                    *other combinations possible, so long that it prepares the fighter for MMA*

                    Students get ranking or competition ranks in the seperate MA's and when they have a certain level in their MA's they can enter MMA competition.

                    So a standerized curriculum is not needed, there won't be the need to get black belts in "MMA", since there are belt or ranks in the seperate arts.
                    And it will prevent BS-artists and McDojos to jump on the MMA bandwagon because there are certain requirements that have to be fullfilled.
                    The only that is needed is a controlling organisation that checks the ranks of the teachers with the organisations that gave that rank in the first place.
                    Originally posted by Jiujitsu77
                    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
                    Originally posted by Humanzee
                    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
                    Originally posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
                    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
                    The real deadly:

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