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    #76
    Originally posted by Lebell View Post
    what the hell is wacken?
    Metal festival in Germany , same as Dynamo used to be in Holland , I dont think they hold it anymore the big open air fest in Holland , All the huge metal bands Metallica , Maiden , Testament ,Saxon etc play there .

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      #77
      nah they still did the one in goffertpark nijmegen if im correct.
      or im mixing it up with the rhcp gig at that location.

      im not a big festival fan, fucking smelly long haired hippy's.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
        I didnt make up the Newhall Incident it was soley to describe a point you do what your training was in a combat situation.
        But your description of the Newhall incident appears to be inaccurate. We took a few minutes to look into it and found out what really happened. No big problem.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Burningman View Post

          ... The maximum kinetic energy you can impose on a target is your body weight i.e. MASS X VELOCITY,...
          I just wanted to point out that this is the wrong formula.
          That describes force.
          Kinetic energy is usually expressed as 1/2 Mass x Velocity squared.

          Sorry, carry on.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
            Hey Dutchboy go stick your finger in a dike you wooden shoe motherfucker , are you like one of those who turned in ann frank , you little scumbag
            .... That's a little Racist, don't you think...?

            Foxie...

            I had such high hopes for you....

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by ChenPengFi View Post
              I just wanted to point out that this is the wrong formula.
              That describes force.
              Kinetic energy is usually expressed as 1/2 Mass x Velocity squared.

              Sorry, carry on.
              i just wanted to say that you are training wrong.
              you have clf and hung gar in your stylefont, and everybody knows those two don't mix.
              this way you'll never develop proper fa-jing.

              just sayin..

              Comment


                #82
                foxguitar, don't leave yet, I really want MTripp to show you this neck crank...

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Lebell View Post
                  i just wanted to say that you are training wrong.
                  you have clf and hung gar in your stylefont, and everybody knows those two don't mix.
                  this way you'll never develop proper fa-jing.

                  just sayin..
                  Thank goodness me mum had the sense to enroll me in sports like wrestling and Judo when i was a kid,
                  instead of those crazy and deadly martial arts i wanted to learn.
                  So now i suck at several things.....

                  ..and you don't know a fa-jing thing thing you lollander,

                  go stick a finger in a dyke or something.

                  not sayin',
                  just sayin'...

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Vulpes Stringed Instrument
                    When they found the dead officers , guess what they found

                    in their dead hands. The empty cartridges , remember this was before the

                    semi auto 9mm or 40 Cal. became standard. I believed the Highway

                    patrolmen were carrying .357s

                    point being they were trained at their range to catch the expended

                    cartridges in their hands
                    By your story, the cops died because they were trained to hold their brass when reloading. However, there is only evidence of one cop holding brass. That is 1 of the four. The other three officers did not do this. If training caused it, does that mean the others did not follow proper training? I doubt that Police training on picking up brass had much to do with why the lost the gun battle. Other tactics mattered even more.

                    You now look like a worse idiot for saying the following

                    and when question after someone tried to look it up as directed BY YOU

                    First off I went through 2 police academys , Ok do you think they for the non LEO they are going to tell you the tactical mistakes these poor dead officers made
                    You also point out that the surviving gunman stated that the officers got careless. Now cite where the cause of the death was from the police being trained to pick up their brass.

                    You assume I have never been an officer or that I am not even one now. Just because I do not have a tag does not mean that I am not an officer.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by BoonDog View Post
                      By your story, the cops died because they were trained to hold their brass when reloading. However, there is only evidence of one cop holding brass. That is 1 of the four. The other three officers did not do this. If training caused it, does that mean the others did not follow proper training? I doubt that Police training on picking up brass had much to do with why the lost the gun battle. Other tactics mattered even more.

                      You now look like a worse idiot for saying the following

                      And the whole point was to agree to what the OP said about you refer to your training in a crisis situation and if you are a LEO I want proof or stfu


                      and when question after someone tried to look it up as directed BY YOU



                      You also point out that the surviving gunman stated that the officers got careless. Now cite where the cause of the death was from the police being trained to pick up their brass.

                      You assume I have never been an officer or that I am not even one now. Just because I do not have a tag does not mean that I am not an officer.

                      Well are you or not , if so wheres your proof , and if you are how long ,

                      Do you carry automatics , Because if you carried revolvers and trained on them prior to speed loaders which btw were faster than the pouch were still cumbersome in a combat situation.

                      Ever read the books on surviving street encounters , well not only did I read it I attended their seminars , These are professionals who disect incidents where LEOs are killed.

                      And one case study they conducted was the Newhall incident. They are the ones who hammered the point that the officers were trained to catch their brass , whether it was one or all 4 , At least one did that and perhaps that cost him valuable seconds which cost him his life.

                      Ok and I doubt you are a LEO without proof. and security guard at walmarts dont count.

                      And the whole point of all this was to agree with the OP that you refer to your training in a crisis situation but you as a "LEO "would know that wouldn't you ?
                      Last edited by foxguitar; 8/02/2009 2:42pm, .

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
                        Well are you or not , if so wheres your proof , and if you are how long ,
                        Well, that is your opinion and you can think what you want. I do not have to provide proof to you. Don't you know who I am?


                        See what I did there? I argued just like you.


                        Originally posted by foxguitar
                        Ever read the books on surviving street encounters , well not only did I read it I attended their seminars , These are professionals who disect incidents where LEOs are killed.
                        And your point? I don't care. You can attend all the seminars and read all the books you want. That does not make your post any more right. In fact it has nothing to do with your post. Also, you are not the only one on here with experiences in life.

                        Originally posted by foxguitar
                        whether it was one or all 4 , At least one did that and perhaps that cost him valuable seconds which cost him his life.
                        But if only one did it and it was so ingrained, does that mean the other three had poor training? The other three died and did not hold onto their spent rounds. Why are they dead if holding spent rounds is what caused them to not be able to have good tactics?

                        Originally posted by foxguitar
                        And the whole point of all this was to agree with the OP that you refer to your training in a crisis situation.
                        And you were asked to provide proof that the four cops, as you claimed, died because of training methodology on the range. You have provided no evidence to your claim. All you have said is that you read books, attended seminars, and are a cop, so we should believe you. You have not argued against any of the evidence provided against your statements, nor have you grasped what the issue is being addressed.

                        Originally posted by foxguitar
                        but you as a "LEO "would know that wouldn't you ?
                        So, if I disagree with you, I must not be a LEO. That is a piss poor way to argue. Also, the evidence is contrary to your notion. Argue against the evidence provided or provide rebuttal evidence. That is all I have ever asked of you. Is that so hard for you?

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by BoonDog View Post
                          Well, that is your opinion and you can think what you want. I do not have to provide proof to you. Don't you know who I am?


                          See what I did there? I argued just like you.

                          no you need practice , theres only one FOXGUITAR LOL




                          And your point? I don't care. You can attend all the seminars and read all the books you want. That does not make your post any more right. In fact it has nothing to do with your post. Also, you are not the only one on here with experiences in life.

                          Yeah but you are arguing about something you have no knowledge about , If you were an experience lumberjack and I came on here telling you about lumberjacking it would be silly on my part would it not .
                          And if you dont think 28 years as a LEO and countless seminars counts for anything then I guess you dont think your martial arts instructors experience and time spent account for anything.


                          But if only one did it and it was so ingrained, does that mean the other three had poor training? The other three died and did not hold onto their spent rounds. Why are they dead if holding spent rounds is what caused them to not be able to have good tactics?

                          It was ingrained , it was taught at their academy , these were young inexperienced officers . And after that the training in the range procedures as well other tactics were changed as a result



                          And you were asked to provide proof that the four cops, as you claimed, died because of training methodology on the range. You have provided no evidence to your claim. All you have said is that you read books, attended seminars, and are a cop, so we should believe you. You have not argued against any of the evidence provided against your statements, nor have you grasped what the issue is being addressed.

                          What difference if it was one or all 4 , The point being there "officer" if it cost one of them valuable seconds to re-load and contributed to his or their death then it was a fatal mistake.

                          Im not to criticize these 4 poor officers who made the ultimate sacrifice but there were as in most Police deaths tactical mistakes made.

                          the whole point and Ill repeat it was to show how you react as you are trained when it comes down to brass tacks. what point with that do you or any rational person have a problem with.

                          The point was one or more officers had spent cartridges on them when they were found as they were taught at their range . END OF STORY


                          So, if I disagree with you, I must not be a LEO. That is a piss poor way to argue. Also, the evidence is contrary to your notion. Argue against the evidence provided or provide rebuttal evidence. That is all I have ever asked of you. Is that so hard for you?
                          well I dont mind you disagreeing or anybody disagrees thats cool , maybe im a little sensitive ok if so I aplogize for that .

                          And if you or not a LEO isnt relevant , again the point is to agree with the OP and illustrate the point with a tragic circumstances.

                          Their deaths as the FBI shoot out in Miami changed Police tactics , As did the Scott Gadell shooting in NYC . NYPD went to speed loaders after he was killed while attempting to reload

                          Ok Im done Ive said my piece , Im sorry it got testy , but I stick to my premise you do what you are trained to do in a crisis.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
                            ]Ok Im done Ive said my piece , Im sorry it got testy , but I stick to my premise you do what you are trained to do in a crisis.
                            Why did it get testy?

                            Your premise is faulty. That is what I am trying to point out to you. You keep saying it does not matter how many of the officers were found with brass in their hands. It is VERY relevant, especially for your premise. In the case you mentioned, without any citation still after being asked for it many times, one report mentions only one officer having brass in his hand.

                            Now to help you understand this, I will try and point out why it matters. If only one did this, then the other three officers did not do this. They did not fall back on the training in the crisis. This story, as presented, blows a huge hole in your premise.

                            Can you rebut any of my argument with a valid rebuttal or new evidence.

                            AND stop doing the appeal of "I'm a Cop, you must believe me."

                            PS
                            As to your lumberjack analogy, if I were a lumberjack and told you the legend of Paul Bunyan and you questioned it, I better be able to say more than "I'm a lumberjack, you must believe me even though you provide contrary evidence."

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by BoonDog View Post
                              Why did it get testy?

                              Your premise is faulty. That is what I am trying to point out to you. You keep saying it does not matter how many of the officers were found with brass in their hands. It is VERY relevant, especially for your premise. In the case you mentioned, without any citation still after being asked for it many times, one report mentions only one officer having brass in his hand.

                              Now to help you understand this, I will try and point out why it matters. If only one did this, then the other three officers did not do this. They did not fall back on the training in the crisis. This story, as presented, blows a huge hole in your premise.

                              Can you rebut any of my argument with a valid rebuttal or new evidence.

                              AND stop doing the appeal of "I'm a Cop, you must believe me."

                              PS
                              As to your lumberjack analogy, if I were a lumberjack and told you the legend of Paul Bunyan and you questioned it, I better be able to say more than "I'm a lumberjack, you must believe me even though you provide contrary evidence."

                              Ok point by point , I wasnt there so but this much I know , the first 2 were executed prretty quickly so chances there wasnt chance to engage in a lengthy combat situation. The 3rd officer If Im correct had a shot gun and the 4th officer we can agree had the brass.

                              Ok the point is it doesnt matter if one or all 4 retained the brass at least 1 did . And the procedures at the range in that agency and other police agencies were forever changed as a direct of that incident . Yes other tactical mistakes were made .

                              Every cop alive has made tactical mistakes and its by the grace of god that more of us arent killed or injured.

                              So why you so bent on how many officers did that . Does it matter . The point I think illustrates the premise that you will fall back on your training. So why cant you admit that and move one.

                              Why do you think all the Bullshidos in here are so onboard with the Matt Thorton credo of Alive training. Thats why we have so many debates and so on about the usefullness of Kata and what not

                              So I think you are thinking too small minded. I think the account of this tragedy underscores my points.

                              And the difference of Paul Bunyan is 4 LEOs didnt die in 4 and half minutes .

                              I think I rest made my point and my case. And 1 other point .
                              A cop will see things differently than a civilian and a veteran officer will see things differently than a rookie .

                              So When I ask you if you are a LEO its not to say im cool and you are not . Its to gauge your life experience when it comes to a tactical police situation, Just like surviving a military battle there is no way to describe it to another person and do it justice , but some one was in battle will instantly know exactly what the person is talking about.

                              End of story .

                              Fuck being a cop Id rather be retired .
                              Last edited by foxguitar; 8/02/2009 6:02pm, .

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by foxguitar View Post
                                And the difference of Paul Bunyan is 4 LEOs didnt die in 4 and half minutes .
                                So if being a lumberjack doesn't mean that he has the final word on Paul Bunyan what is the difference? Is it just the fact that there were LEO deaths means we should just accept your word without any evidence?

                                If that is the case, I work for the railroad and there was once this guy named John Henry. He was born with a hammer in his hand. He spent his life putting down rail. Of course we all know he dug a tunnel faster than a steam hammer. You can't question my story because he collapsed and died after he finished the tunnel.

                                I think you are unquestionably proving that you have no training in general logic to fall back on.

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