Various strawmen

[Sley]

Does anyone even do PCPs these days, outside of the rantings of keyboard paranoids (and the police department press releases during brutality cases)?

I DOOOOOOO!!!!

while I do wing chun in space!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SoylentNinja]

Lots of shitty anecdotes that we all have been over and over.

YouTube - Troll

Damn I love that clip...

[Snake Plissken]

Gee I thought you knew. The street is kryptonite to ring fighters. You know, cause Mike Tyson, has sued so many people for beating his ass outside of the ring.

YouTube - Mitch "Blood" Green

Spoiler:

[foxguitar]

This thread needs to be revived! I joined bullshido from my research of TFT. I just watched the 1st 2 hours of the TFT strike program, the 2 instructors repeat over and over again the core principles of TFT. I am just as skeptical as the next guy in here. What I get is this,

The maximum kinetic energy you can impose on a target is your body weight i.e. MASS X VELOCITY, which is going to be lesser than "musculatur". I am thinking about those guys who breaks bricks with fists and forehead. This concept of MASS>MUSCLE obviously do not apply to these brickbreakers martial artist.

In defence however, their philosophy is such that in a teeth and nail fight to the death, when it has come down to that, you commit 100% to your attack. If your 100% is not enough, you die. But it is your best chance of survival. Defending yourself is not important because the person who can inflict an injury 1st is the one who survive. Even if you sustain a gorged eye, broken rib, etc, it does not matter if you incapacitate the attacker before he kills you. Of course nobody has 100% accuracy, if the attacker is faster and stronger and more skilled than you, no system and training will help you.

Alot what he says is spot on ,

As much as I hate to admit cause I do sport karate .

But heres the biggest anecdote that goes along the same lines

Im not sure if it was the 60s or 70s but four California Highway Patrolmen

were shot to death by 2 ex cons on a California Freeway .

Now the cops outnumbered the bad guys and knew they were armed

because a passerby saw these yokels with a gun and call it to CHP

with their tags and a description.

Fastforward . When they found the dead officers , guess what they found

in their dead hands. The empty cartridges , remember this was before the

semi auto 9mm or 40 Cal. became standard. I believed the Highway

patrolmen were carrying .357s

point being they were trained at their range to catch the expended

cartridges in their hands . You know why ? because it was easier to police

the brass , in other words clean up the range. .

Now for you non gun folks . Those of us who have fired revolvers know

even with speedloaders reloading is a bitch . This was before Speed

loaders so loading was manual . Its a mother fucker in a combat situation

to load like I said with speed loaders its a triple motherfucker to do it by

hand and its motherfucking impossible to do it with your non gun hand full

of expended shell casings . ergo after that the CHP training was revised .

[Foolish]

Alot what he says is spot on ,

As much as I hate to admit cause I do sport karate .

But heres the biggest anecdote that goes along the same lines

Im not sure if it was the 60s or 70s but four California Highway Patrolmen

were shot to death by 2 ex cons on a California Freeway .

Now the cops outnumbered the bad guys and knew they were armed

because a passerby saw these yokels with a gun and call it to CHP

with their tags and a description.

Fastforward . When they found the dead officers , guess what they found

in their dead hands. The empty cartridges , remember this was before the

semi auto 9mm or 40 Cal. became standard. I believed the Highway

patrolmen were carrying .357s

point being they were trained at their range to catch the expended

cartridges in their hands . You know why ? because it was easier to police

the brass , in other words clean up the range. .

Now for you non gun folks . Those of us who have fired revolvers know

even with speedloaders reloading is a bitch . This was before Speed

loaders so loading was manual . Its a mother fucker in a combat situation

to load like I said with speed loaders its a triple motherfucker to do it by

hand and its motherfucking impossible to do it with your non gun hand full

of expended shell casings . ergo after that the CHP training was revised .

Sounds like an urban legend. Please provide some documentation if you are going to quote this as fact.

[2Many]

What does your system do when you face a "Super-Human" that's jacked up on pcp and you don't have a taser?

Usually, police use a gun. For the rest of us, we run. Most systems are not very effective against PCP dopers without doing something lethal or near-lethal.

Why is there such a problem with hitting targets and getting reactions out of it?

Not much, as long as there is a "Plan B" for when you don't get a reaction. Different people react differently to stimuli, including pain stimuli. If you're going to rely on a specific reaction to a technique, then you'd better make sure that the technique does not place you in a disadvantageous position if the technique is ineffective.

Why is it such a bad thing to train to destroy vital targets to the body?

Most systems don't train to destroy vital targets. To do so would require the use of something like a Red Man Suit. As far as I've seen, most training facilities do not have such equipment. If you train to "destroy" vital targets using semi-contact strikes or techniques, you will perform them in semi-contact fashion in a real fight. That is as good as useless. I've seen it happen; I've even experienced it myself.

If you can train strikes or other techniques against vital targets in full-contact manner, then good. Otherwise, you probably shouldn't train them at all, lest you become over-reliant on them.

Last but not least, you will fight the way you train. If you train with rules, that is the way you will fight. If you train to let a guy go when he taps, you will do that in a fight...

..."Well, I can kick to the groin if I have to, I just don't because we have rules. I could shove my finger in your eyeball socket, but I don't because were sparring." If you never train to fight that way, in real life you won't. Yeah, they are available to everyone, but if you don't train to use them, you simply won't. Because the reality is, you've trained to fight without them, and so they aren't available to you. Muscle memory means a lot in a fight. Because you simply don't have time to think. Everything has to be automatic. If you've trained with rules, that's what automatic, not the stuff that's going to end the fight quickly.

You seem to have formed this opinion on the basis of little or no understanding of human reflexes or the techniques involved.

When utilising an armbar or choke (probably the two most dominant disabling techniques in grappling arts), the user has full conscious control over the technique, because the techniques are executed slowly enough for a fighter to make a fully-conscious decision whether to continue or stop. Their decision to stop or continue the technique upon their opponent "tapping out" is not dependent on reflex or other neurological programming. Even when the fighter is accustomed to release their training partners upon "tapping out", the fighters behaviour in a fight is unaffected by their training customs

When utilising a groin kick, eye poke, or other typical "destruction of vital targets" techniques, they rely on extremely fast, accurate execution, which is highly dependent on neurological programming. There is no time for a fighter to make conscious decisions about how much power or speed they use for these techniques. If the fighter has been trained to perform those techniques at half-speed or semi-contact power, then the fighter becomes very prone to executing those techniques at half-speed or semi-contact power in a real fight.

So the "fight like you train" phenomenon doesn't really apply to premature releases upon tapping out, whereas it does apply to "destruction of vital body targets" techniques.

[foxguitar]

Sounds like an urban legend. Please provide some documentation if you are going to quote this as fact.

Unfortunately it is fact , its easily looked up .

and why would I spend my time making up a story , if I was that good Id be a screenwriter . :eusa_wall


april 5th 1970 Newhall California , Look it up

[BoonDog]

Unfortunately it is fact , its easily looked up .

and why would I spend my time making up a story , if I was that good Id be a screenwriter . :eusa_wall


april 5th 1970 Newhall California , Look it up

I looked it up and could find NO reference to finding expelled cartridges in their hands. What I did read is that the first officer was shot by the passenger without even being able to fire. The second officer fired at the passenger and was shot by the driver. The 3rd and 4th officers drove saw neither the dead cops or the gunmen. They immediately came under fire. One passerby grabbed the shot gun and tried to fire it, but it was empty. He then grabbed an officer's handgun and fired hitting one of the gunmen. The gunmen then fled.

The officers were relatively new to the job. The gunmen were military veterans.

Changes were made in the way traffic stops were performed with an emphasis on safety.

Now cite where the cops were found holding their brass.

[Foolish]

Unfortunately it is fact , its easily looked up .

and why would I spend my time making up a story , if I was that good Id be a screenwriter . :eusa_wall


april 5th 1970 Newhall California , Look it up

I didn't say you made it up. I said it sounded like an urban legend. :BangHead:

And, if you are the one citing it you should be the one posting a link.

Now cite where the cops were found holding their brass.

This is the type of thing that gets added to the story in the telling and pushes it towards urban legend.

[foxguitar]

I looked it up and could find NO reference to finding expelled cartridges in their hands. What I did read is that the first officer was shot by the passenger without even being able to fire. The second officer fired at the passenger and was shot by the driver. The 3rd and 4th officers drove saw neither the dead cops or the gunmen. They immediately came under fire. One passerby grabbed the shot gun and tried to fire it, but it was empty. He then grabbed an officer's handgun and fired hitting one of the gunmen. The gunmen then fled.

The officers were relatively new to the job. The gunmen were military veterans.

Changes were made in the way traffic stops were performed with an emphasis on safety.

Now cite where the cops were found holding their brass.

First off I went through 2 police academys , Ok do you think they for the non LEO they are going to tell you the tactical mistakes these poor dead officers made . The killer that survived stated when asked why he killed the officers

"QUOTE THEY GOT CARELESS SO I WASTED THEM UNQUOTE".

the tactical errors are not made public for non LEO's so the bad guy out there cant counter actout Police Training .

I didnt make up the story , whether you chose to believe it or not thats up to you

[foxguitar]

Its funny how some of you guys just love to argue and debate everything , Is it possible you and Im not talking to everybody , just a few of you , dont know everything ,

I could understand if you had first hand knowledge of a particular subject , But like my man James Hetfield said YOU KNOW NOT .

Alot of you will chime in just to chime in with no intelligent input . You fucks would debate Einstein on his theory of relativity . It be one thing if you had the prequisite education in physics and Math but half you nitwits have IQs 10 point lower than Hamsters will argue just simply just simply just to argue a point.

Its scary to think we were once a great country , we have become second rate and now Im starting to see why . YIKES

[It is Fake]

the tactical errors are not made public for non LEO's so the bad guy out there cant counter actout Police Training .

Unfortunately it is fact , its easily looked up .

It is only going to go down hill.

Alot of you will chime in just to chime in with no intelligent input . You fucks would debate Einstein on his theory of relativity . It be one thing if you had the prequisite education in physics and Math but half you nitwits have IQs 10 point lower than Hamsters will argue just simply just simply just to argue a point.

^^^YEP.

[Foolish]

I didnt make up the story , whether you chose to believe it or not thats up to you

Once again, no one is saying you made up the story. But the details don't seem like they can be verified other than someone once told you.

It is a very common practice for instructors of any kind to overstate the negative implications of something. They do this to make a student think more about what they are doing and be more aware of the consequences.

It is also possible that a group of instructors sat down over a beer and decided to see who could come up with the biggest line of BS that the gullible noobs would believe.

Its funny how some of you guys just love to argue and debate everything , Is it possible you and Im not talking to everybody , just a few of you , dont know everything ,

I could understand if you had first hand knowledge of a particular subject , But like my man James Hetfield said YOU KNOW NOT .

Alot of you will chime in just to chime in with no intelligent input . You fucks would debate Einstein on his theory of relativity . It be one thing if you had the prequisite education in physics and Math but half you nitwits have IQs 10 point lower than Hamsters will argue just simply just simply just to argue a point.

Its scary to think we were once a great country , we have become second rate and now Im starting to see why . YIKES

If you are going to quote unrealistic facts as gospel truth expect to be asked to back it up. 'Someone once told me', and 'it isn't public knowledge' don't cut it as excuses for not being able to show some corroborating evidence.

It is exactly this reasoning that leads to a lot of the bullshido this site deals with. How is your argument any different that this? Master Foo says that chain-punching works. He told me that it does and he's been in hundreds of underground death matches and he's still here so it must work. He says there's no point to pressure testing it because it's too deadly. You're not the chun master so who the fuck are you to ask questions.

The problem with this country isn't the people that choose to question something. The problem is the people that blindly accept the most obvious bullshit without even thinking to question it. The second biggest problem is the dumb fucks that expect people to blindly accept whatever they are told.

[2Many]

It looks like Foxguitar is right about the Newell incident. According to some sources, one of the officers (probably Officer Pence) was found to have retained his spent casings, rather than let them fall to the ground.

http://www.cji.edu/papers/HankinsChris.pdf
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/training.htm

[Foolish]

It looks like Foxguitar is right about the Newell incident. According to some sources, one of the officers (probably Officer Pence) was found to have retained his spent casings, rather than let them fall to the ground.

http://www.cji.edu/papers/HankinsChris.pdf
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/ccw/training.htm

That looks like it has all the info. It would have been easier to see this up front rather than get the I told you so and it's not public info line.