What doesn't suck?

[mike321]

It's the rules under which competition is held, not the simple fact of competing. The thread about GrapplingX "pankration" tourney comes to mind. Shitty rules = shitty competition = shitty application no matter what style is being practiced.

This is true, in early UFC tournaments, GOOD specialty fighters got owned due to incomplete game. But even within a styles expertise, bad rules (such as scoring slaps) will degrade an art. Ultimately, no art is safe from its practitioners.

[ZenOfAnger]

BINGO! There are techniques that they only perform in kata because "they are too dangerous to practice against an opponent". This isn't a quote I made up. It's directly from Best Judo by Isao Inokuma and Nobuyuki Sato from Tokai University.

I actually own this book and has some great stuff in it, but even it is acknowledged in the book, I believe, that competition in judo is vital for proper judo. They may not allow all techniques in shihai (is that the correct term?), but the importance of competition does not rely on the techniques applied, but rather the ability to test ones skill against another.

In other words, how do you know you could win a real fight if you can't win against someone in a tournament? Sure, some dangerous techniques will not be allowed, but if you have solid judo, then it should not matter what is or is not allowed, but how well you can apply judo principles under pressure.

Just look at boxing; they can only punch, but if you put a good boxer in a "dangerous" situation, let's say, eye strikes allowed, he would be able to properly defend the eye strikes, beacuse he has the correct principles to do so. He may not be able to "eye strike" well, but he could quickly adapt to the situation since his training method is valid.

[wingchunx2z]

Muay Thai, BJJ, Judo, Boxing, Wrestling etc. will never decay to the level of strip mall Karate because at the end of the day these arts compete. That competitive element keeps the arts honest.

that's not neccesarrily true though. The scary thing is they ahve a way around that. theres a mcdojo here called tiger schulmans MMA and they actualyl have their own tsfc lmao tiger schulmans fighting championchip. its a school specefic mma competition that is isolated from the rest of the mma community. So they are able to compete at a high level in their own orginization. This is the work around I have seen start to appear in these schools.

[u1ysses]

its a school specefic mma competition that is isolated from the rest of the mma community. So they are able to compete at a high level in their own orginization. This is the work around I have seen start to appear in these schools.

Uh, "school-specific competition" that's anything other than a mock-tournament to prepare people for the real thing is not what people here mean when they say "competition." Actual competition keeps people honest, regardless of whether or not bs organizations use the word incorrectly.

[lockfield]

what does not suck?

a malfunctioning vaccum cleaner.

SERIOUSLY...

a gay dude who doesn't want to contract oral herpes...:psyduck:

[bigstu31s]

Where did Tae Kwon Do, mainstream Karate, Aikido, and similar go wrong?

Basically, they stopped being about hurting people and started to be about health, sporting, loving the universe, and so forth. In the case of Taijiquan, that happened centuries ago. With Aikido, it was a founding principle of the art in the 1920's.

For other styles, I think the late 70's and the 80's had a lot to do with it. Thanks to the influence of Bruce Lee, the ninja craze, TMNT, Daniel-san, etc, karate was breaking out of obscurity and becoming a household word. At that time Karate was trained strictly and sparring was harsh: no or minimal pads with head contact and sweeps allowed, and Chuck Norris won a few championships using Tang Soo Do, a half-brother to TKD, and was acknowledged all-around as a bad-ass.

But with popularity inevitably comes kids, and with kids come parents who don't like the idea of their children sustaining recreational concussions in what is, from their perspective, a funny foreign sport. So things get watered down a bit for the kids, pads and safety measures are added, and then the kids grow up, get their black belts, and start teaching a new generation of martial artists, and so forth. I have a feeling that within the next 10-15 years, Muay Thai in the US will undergo a similar change.

For the most part, it's true what some have said that it doesn't matter what you train, it's how you train. If you took Taijiquan techniques, sped them up and trained them in full-contact sparring, you could probably be a pretty good fighter.

So the question of what works depends more on whose tutelage you're training under. That said, judo is probably a good choice, as its possible to train realistically even in a mainstream/sports-focused class.

I did Wing Chun for 5 years before I realised that I missed sparring. Then I did some freestyle which was kinda like JKD which is when the first UFC came out and I realised that I needed to grapple. So I went back to the first art I started, Judo. I also took some BJJ lessons but at that time there was only a couple of BJJ schools around.

[syberia]

It’s funny how people’s idea of what works in fighting changes through the years. If I knew then what I know now I would have stuck with the Judo from 7, done some Muai Thai or boxing when I was in my teens and then progressed on to BJJ in my early twenties, hell I would have been a bad ass by now.

Yeah, probably. No-one in my town would have been awesome. All we had while i was growing up was bad TKD and one Karate school (that i cant comment on, i've never visited it). But now theres a BJJ and MMA gym- so its all good. We're across the carpark from one of the TKD schools to. It helps me feel better while i'm training.

[bigstu31s]

Yeah, probably. No-one in my town would have been awesome. All we had while i was growing up was bad TKD and one Karate school (that i cant comment on, i've never visited it). But now theres a BJJ and MMA gym- so its all good. We're across the carpark from one of the TKD schools to. It helps me feel better while i'm training.

I guess most people on here who are in the mid to late 30's would have done Karate at some point as that was the most widely available MA around back in the day. The youth of today are all doing BJJ and MT so we are going to see some serious MMA fighters in the next 10 years

[poker]

I guess most people on here who are in the mid to late 30's would have done Karate at some point as that was the most widely available MA around back in the day. The youth of today are all doing BJJ and MT so we are going to see some serious MMA fighters in the next 10 years

Are BJJ and MT really that widespread in the UK?

I believe there are still a ton of TMA places around and TMAs are doing just fine. Kiddies TKD is still clearly the #1 MA where I live. Judo is very common and there are a good few kickboxing/MT places (although the scourge of cardio kickboxing will probably get them), but Karate, TKD and the various silly-super-system made up TMAs are huge. BJJ seems to be starting up but no idea how good it is.

[Lebell]

BINGO! There are techniques that they only perform in kata because "they are too dangerous to practice against an opponent". This isn't a quote I made up. It's directly from Best Judo by Isao Inokuma and Nobuyuki Sato from Tokai University.

True BUT you can practise them very carefully and feel that they would work full on.

Like that jawhold.

Very painfull and not something you'd be allowed to use during competition.
But you can apply it with a partner and you can feel how it would work.

Way more concrete then the bullshido arts.

[bigstu31s]

Are BJJ and MT really that widespread in the UK?

I believe there are still a ton of TMA places around and TMAs are doing just fine. Kiddies TKD is still clearly the #1 MA where I live. Judo is very common and there are a good few kickboxing/MT places (although the scourge of cardio kickboxing will probably get them), but Karate, TKD and the various silly-super-system made up TMAs are huge. BJJ seems to be starting up but no idea how good it is.

BJJ is definately growing over here as are MMA type clubs. If you live in or around London then you have a big choice of BJJ clubs including Roger Gracie's, so some good instructors.
I agree that in every Church Hall in every town you will find Karate, Judo, TKD, Aikido, Wing Chun or similar but as more and more youngsters are attracted to the UFC then these youngsters will be seeking out BJJ or MT.
One thing that is hard to find in the UK is a boxing Gym, which is a real shame.

[Kovacs]

BJJ is definately growing over here as are MMA type clubs. If you live in or around London then you have a big choice of BJJ clubs including Roger Gracie's, so some good instructors.
I agree that in every Church Hall in every town you will find Karate, Judo, TKD, Aikido, Wing Chun or similar but as more and more youngsters are attracted to the UFC then these youngsters will be seeking out BJJ or MT.
One thing that is hard to find in the UK is a boxing Gym, which is a real shame.

I work in London and live in Kent and echo pretty much all of that, particularly about the boxing gyms. When i was in my teens (I'm 29 now) and taking up WC there were a fair few really decent boxing clubs in the SE and London but I can hardly find any, a few gems but they're few and far between, I wish I would have binned the WC and taken up boxing when I had the chance.

Its nice to see quality BJJ and Muay Thai gyms popping up in London a lot more often now (although a few in the actual centre of London would be nice). Unfortunately though, where I live out in the sticks, ropey Karate and 'self-defence' McDojo's still hold sway for the most part. I honestly hope MMA's popularity continues to rise and some good gyms open up near me so that I have somewhere to train at the weekend.

[bigstu31s]

I work in London and live in Kent and echo pretty much all of that, particularly about the boxing gyms. When i was in my teens (I'm 29 now) and taking up WC there were a fair few really decent boxing clubs in the SE and London but I can hardly find any, a few gems but they're few and far between, I wish I would have binned the WC and taken up boxing when I had the chance.

Its nice to see quality BJJ and Muay Thai gyms popping up in London a lot more often now (although a few in the actual centre of London would be nice). Unfortunately though, where I live out in the sticks, ropey Karate and 'self-defence' McDojo's still hold sway for the most part. I honestly hope MMA's popularity continues to rise and some good gyms open up near me so that I have somewhere to train at the weekend.

I'm sure the MMA places will come to the small villages eventually but then we might end up getting MMAmcdojo's where a BJJ blue Belt with a years MT decide's he is actually a UFC fighter just to make some money. I'm not saying that a BJJ blue belt can't teach a begginer the basics of BJJ but you know what I mean.

[Kovacs]

Yeah, very true. I've got a lot of faith in MAA being harder to bullshit though. With a lot of traditional MA's it's too easy to dazzle new-comers with nice looking forms, oblique references, mysterious senior figures and obscure historical backgrounds. MMA it generally puts it's money where it's mouth is, training is alive and pressure tested and instructors often have fighting careers which new students can witness for themselves, live or on video. Not through hear say and dojo whispers.

I'm not saying MMA is impregnable, anything in life can be bullshitted but for me it's just more sound.

Bascially, I just want a damned gym I can train in at the weekend!! :-)

[Tersi]

My ex didn't. Oh well.