Good ole Kempo nuthuggery...

[CombatCuddler]

More awesometastic youtube drama! Ran across this on one of the "Gracies in Action" youtube vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFCwdBEOS1Q

I'm posting as "Ilikeaeroplanejelly". Only just joined in though :P

Is Backuporshutup a bullshido member? Just that they referred the Kempo guys here to get their military claims verified.

Some quotes:

Guess my nephew isn't in the real military, it's not broadcast on youtube. We all know the military broadcasts all their training material to the public. They have no secrets, what would be the point in hiding your strategy from your enemy? Tard.

The military has been using Kenpo because they have NOT been traditional and EPAK is not a TMA as BJJ is.

The military does not advertise it's training and only a webbie would believe they do. You will find little on the web about KCMS if you can find anything because they don't want the enemies of the US using their own training against them.

SF as TChar said uses Kenpo.

The combat instruction given in the military to SF would be illegal in or out of the ring due to it's absolute brutality. Nothing in the ring can compare nor can it prepare like what we do.

EPAK was taught to SF. They don't play or have rules. The reason you will not see a BJJ fighter against an EPAK fighter is they are too smart to let that out.

Of course, they could be completely right; I'm not special forces so I don't know. Do US Special Forces train in Kempo?

[attakmint]

I'm pretty sure Special Forces, like the rest of the army, trains Army combatives.

Which is basically BJJ at the lower levels.

[Soju_King]

special forces train in whatever. army combatives is common and in addition to that soldiers learn other styles in thier spare time if its convinient.

depending on where your stationed at theres different systems u can train in. for example couple of SF guys i know in Korea train tkd.

but the line about SF martial training being super secret an too deadly to use or reveal to the public is some rambo fantasy bullshit

[Diesel_tke]

I have two family members in special forces of two separate branches of the military. I can beat both of them in a fight. They could both kill me with one shot a 100 yards. They both got basic training in school, and then supplement it with whatever is available where they are stationed. Despite what most people think, they do not spend all their time in a dojo honing their H2H skills. They spend their off time with their families.

[CombatCuddler]

That was more or less what I assumed the case would be.

I've just made a couple of the guys on the Youtube video argument aware of this thread; thought they might like an opportunity to respond, and I'm interested in hearing what they have to say about this "Special forces training Kempo" business outside the cesspool which is youtube :P

[maofas]

If you read too many YouTube comments you're going to wind up a vegetable. Don't do it.

[xingyifa]

I never did the special forces job per se, but I did go through a good chunk of the training 5-6 year ago. When I was in a prep program for new recruits called SOPC, some douchebag basically asked one of our green beret instructors a similar question about teh deadly. After several minutes of comedy where the instructors made fun of the recruit, we basically got the answer that h2h was not terribly important for the SF mission as something would have to go terribly wrong for a scenario to exist where an ODA was slugging it out with the enemy.

[rocketsurgeon]

I have two family members in special forces of two separate branches of the military. I can beat both of them in a fight. They could both kill me with one shot a 100 yards. They both got basic training in school, and then supplement it with whatever is available where they are stationed. Despite what most people think, they do not spend all their time in a dojo honing their H2H skills. They spend their off time with their families.

This. I wasn't SF. I trained locally at a place when I was in the Army and they were super-pumped because the son of the guy who had the monopoly on most of the contracts was being a douche, and they were picking up some of the business from the group guys.

Sort of takes the magic out of "military hand to hand combat" to realize that it's dictated by business dealings rather than teh deadly. Of course, that's the same thing that takes the magic out of the dojo.

Also reminds me of the "I got a AR-15, it's just like a Armee gun!" What, it's in use because somebody had the means to produce enough of them to meet a contract? Loving your .22 enough to know it inside and out so you can maintain it and hit a running chipmunk is more important than equipping yourself in a fashion similar to the military.

If you can't follow the analogy, I'll say this: the Judoka who lovingly studies his scarf choke week after week is better off than the guy who takes every seminar that comes along in Krav Maga, Kempo, Army Combatives, or whatever military martial arts flavor of the month has the market cornered on the deadly.
:chewy:
Chewbacca agrees, see: bowcaster.

[cyberneticghost]

I have two family members in special forces of two separate branches of the military. I can beat both of them in a fight. They could both kill me with one shot a 100 yards. They both got basic training in school, and then supplement it with whatever is available where they are stationed. Despite what most people think, they do not spend all their time in a dojo honing their H2H skills. They spend their off time with their families.

This is the truth. I know someone in the special forces and if they have their primary weapon or sidearm you have little to no chance no matter the distance, but when it comes to H2H your chances improve.

The reason is because special forces don't put nearly as much importance on H2H because in all honesty when are they going to use it? Does anyone think they drop their primary weapon in the field and say Lets do this mano y mano?

In truth it depends on the unit. The person I know did basic MMA. Striking, Takedowns, and Groundwork with no "TeH Deadly" on the side. The person I know was pretty good, not pro level or anything, but could certainly handle themselves. On a side note I asked them if they did L.I.N.E.S or combatives and they laughed at me and told me it was shit.

[rw4th]

"Hand to Hand" stopped being a deciding factor on the battlefield the moment the first caveman picked a rock or made a spear.

[Rivington]

The main problem here is the OP reading YouTube comments.

[Yoj]

The main problem here is the OP reading YouTube comments.

no the main problem is the OP read them, mentioned them on here, then I read some.

[Marc Spector]

What is with you guys downplaying the supreme importance of H2H in special forces? It's like you don't know anything at all. You're obviously not playing the right video games.

[CombatCuddler]

The main problem here is the OP reading YouTube comments.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm almost tempted to avoid youtube completely, just to avoid the ridiculously horrifically stupid shit that people post there.

[MrGalt]

YouTube arguments never end. Especially sport vs. street. I did once get a die-hard chunner to spend untold amounts of his free time searching for alive chun for me as part of a youtube argument. The results are somewhere in YMAS.