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    Minimum requirements for teaching MMA

    Jason Brinn asked the following question:

    9. ....and the MOST blatant....this forum STILL has not put out a standard directive as to what is the bottom line requirements for someone to have to be considered a valid instructor of MMA.

    This got me thinking.

    I know most people think that the minimum requirement for teaching BJJ is a purple belt but in Ireland there just arent that many. I am sure this is true in many places. Me and a few other guys teach MMA/striking/BJJ at our gym since there is nobody there with more experience than us. We make no claims about being anything that we are not it is just that we have no better options.

    None of us are paid for teaching we just got together to train since there was nobody else and a few new guys have joined since.

    There are about ten or so regular guys in the gym and almost all of them have fought amateur (MMA league Ireland) and 5 guys have recently started doing pro fights (Chaos Fighting Championships and Strabane fight night).

    Would we prefer to have a BJJ BB, of course but since there is only one in the country it will never happen (although if he reads this and wants to do a 6 hour commute he is more than welcome). We would also like anderson silva as our striking coach.

    So how do we (Bullshido) determine that someone has no right to be teaching...

    I have been doing BJJ almost constantly since late 2001 (the last four years or so have been focused on no-gi) and am only a blue belt (received in April 2006 from Matt Thornton). Possibly I could have got it earlier but i really wanted to get it from Matt. I also trained at boxing for about 4 or 5 years when i was younger and did some other stuff (a few years of Aikido and a few months of TKD).

    There is one other Blue (under Relion Gracie i think) who also trains several days a week with a purple belt guy (who cant train with us since he works nights). He also has a brown in JJJ and has boxed.

    We also have an old guy who used to box at a high level who comes in to help with the boxing coaching.

    I think with the resources available to us we are doing very well but what is the concencus. By the standards of this site are we bullshido?

    If not, then what is the minimum qualification we accept as able to teach MMA?

    #2
    First off there will be no consensus.

    Second, don't do his job for him. It is explained throughout that thread what was wanted, The issue was never a minimum requirement to teach. It was whether he had the skills to teach.

    These are two completely separate issues that he doesn't get. There are a few coaches, especially in boxing, that have trained championship boxers that had one fight or none. Thing is, they lived in the gym, worked with trainers that fought, and their FIGHTERS records speak for their skill at coaching.


    So how do we (Bullshido) determine that someone has no right to be teaching...
    "We" don't.


    None of us are paid for teaching we just got together to train since there was nobody else and a few new guys have joined since.

    There are about ten or so regular guys in the gym and almost all of them have fought amateur (MMA league Ireland) and 5 guys have recently started doing pro fights (Chaos Fighting Championships and Strabane fight night).

    Would we prefer to have a BJJ BB, of course but since there is only one in the country it will never happen (although if he reads this and wants to do a 6 hour commute he is more than welcome). We would also like anderson silva as our striking coach.

    So how do we (Bullshido) determine that someone has no right to be teaching...

    I have been doing BJJ almost constantly since late 2001 (the last four years or so have been focused on no-gi) and am only a blue belt (received in April 2006 from Matt Thornton). Possibly I could have got it earlier but i really wanted to get it from Matt. I also trained at boxing for about 4 or 5 years when i was younger and did some other stuff (a few years of Aikido and a few months of TKD).

    There is one other Blue (under Relion Gracie i think) who also trains several days a week with a purple belt guy (who cant train with us since he works nights). He also has a brown in JJJ and has boxed.
    Do I really need to point out the difference in this quote and the Jason Brinn thread?

    If I said, "I don't think you should be teaching" what would you do?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
      If I said, "I don't think you should be teaching" what would you do?
      I would go berserk and challenge you to a internet duel....:glasses10

      Actually i wouldnt do anything I am not doing already. Since my situation has dictated that i either teach or dont train I would ignore your advice while trying to get to a level where i can grade for my purple.

      Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
      Second, don't do his job for him. It is explained throughout that thread what was wanted, The issue was never a minimum requirement to teach. It was whether he had the skills to teach.

      These are two completely separate issues that he doesn't get. There are a few coaches, especially in boxing, that have trained championship boxers that had one fight or none. Thing is, they lived in the gym, worked with trainers that fought, and their FIGHTERS records speak for their skill at coaching.
      I am not actually asking this for him (and the thread was too long and boring for me to read it all). I just read the last page and was interested in his question. I was wondering if we had a standard line on this but you have now cleared that up for me. Apparently we do not.

      Comment


        #4
        Hello
        Well It is fake has it right.

        Really do you have an alternative? If that is the only people you can tap on, they will have to do.
        It is either that or no training. That being said may be you can organize training week end with the BB once every month/two month.
        If you want to become pro, really if you want to put all the chances on your side, you will have to go where the pro are.

        Phil

        Comment


          #5
          To the OP you're in a tough position. the issue to me seem to be realyl are you doing this for fun or are you serious about the whole MMA thing.

          Meaning if you really wanted to pursue it as a career and business you could fairly cheapply fly in a BJJ BB from Brazil as these guys are all looking to make their mark somewhere.

          Of course this would mean running things as a business and being a full time MMA gym / owner operator so it's a hard call.

          I would say the timing of getting into the MMA business side of things is probably good for Ireland right now, lots of interest and little competition.

          Just my 2 cents

          Comment


            #6
            I am not actually asking this for him (and the thread was too long and boring for me to read it all). I just read the last page and was interested in his question. I was wondering if we had a standard line on this but you have now cleared that up for me. Apparently we do not.
            There is a criteria, it isn't what you want it to be..

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
              There is a criteria, it isn't what you want it to be..
              Well, within five miles of my house are five prominent MMA gyms: Xyience (where Forrest Griffin and Rich Franklin train), Xtreme Couture, Wanderlei Silva's Gym, Tapout (where I train), and Excel Defense Studios (Miletich Fighting Systems). For all of them, to be a trainer, you either need a black belt and a fighting record in MMA or sport bjj/MT/Boxing, ect. If you walked in and said you wanted to be a trainer and didn't have a verifiable fighting record, they would laugh you out of the gym, period. Even if you were only teach sport bjj, you would still need a black belt and a competition record, no discussion.

              Comment


                #8
                The thing is, while it's true, Jason Brinn has no provable qualifications to teach mma, I think that's really a very secondary issue. The issue is, he made a bunch of b.s. claims (or so the circumstantial evidence seems to show) in order to pad his resume and got called on it.

                I could be the most amazing Muay Thai kickboxer in the world, but if I start claiming to have also trained 14 years in Kung Fu (but didn't) and then to have studied under X, Y, and Z famous MAists (but all I did was go to seminars), I'm guilty of B.S. regardless of how well I might be able to fight.

                Like I said in the other thread, anyone can teach as long as they are open & honest about their credentials. Customers can make an informed choice then about whether they would like to go to another gym.

                In the case of the OP in Ireland, you aren't claiming to have "world class" boxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, etc. etc. etc. You're admitting what you've got and it just so happens it might be the best place in town to train by default. There's no shame in that at all.
                Last edited by maofas; 6/10/2009 11:07am, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by maofas View Post
                  The thing is, while it's true, he has no provable qualifications to teach mma, I think that's really a very secondary issue. The issue is, he made a bunch of b.s. claims (or so the circumstantial evidence seems to show) in order to pad his resume and got called on it.

                  I could be the most amazing Muay Thai kickboxer in the world, but if I start claiming to have also trained 14 years in Kung Fu (but didn't) and then to have studied under X, Y, and Z famous MAists (but all I did was go to seminars), I'm guilty of B.S. regardless of how well I might be able to fight.
                  Agreed. Integrity is paramount.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    1. shaved head
                    2. tapout shirt
                    3. 3 ounce gloves
                    4. mean look.

                    Thank you.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      the funny thing is...it is a serious question of integrity. how can this forum and most people on it go around and question others abilities without some basic known and stated standard. you certianly can't judge their hearts to see if they are really trying or not now can you.

                      i never claimed ANYTHING other than what you have claimed (speaking to the guy who started this). there was noone teaching when i started...everyone was looking for someone "qualfied"....the fact is they were training whether the training was subpar or not.

                      if i stated 14 years of training in BJJ (truth) and i didnt have some verifiable names i would get kicked all over the forum because people would say "oh how do you train for 14 years and never train with anyone noted."

                      with no standard to start from it is a matter of politics. politics in how your thread gets started and who you know. in other words total BS.

                      who cares what the "other gyms" think anyway dude....train your heart out and like many others before you and till today you could on any given day beat the "qualified ones."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jasonbrinn View Post
                        the funny thing is...it is a serious question of integrity. how can this forum and most people on it go around and question others abilities without some basic known and stated standard. you certianly can't judge their hearts to see if they are really trying or not now can you.
                        WTF does that have to do with anything? Every white belt in my bjj classes tries hard. Does that make them qualified to teach MMA? Unbelievable!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          i NEVER said that the 14 years of training in BJJ qualified me to teach it jackass.

                          i was asked how long i had been training and i thought...oh wow since 1994 i guess. i never really cared before.

                          being a human and studying how they fight for 27 years qualified me to help others in the process.

                          dont make this thread about me....we have one for that.

                          try..try....TRY to answer the ?

                          how can this forum have integrity when the basis for judgement and qualification isn't stated.

                          i am willing to bet the reason is because 90% of the people on this forum don't meet what the standard would be!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            IIF, you are assuming i want my gym to be acceptable whereas i would say it is lacking in qualified instruction. I (like everyone else there) train there because there is nowhere else and they are a great bunch of guys and we all enjoy ourselves while improving our skills.

                            Would our skillls improve vastly more under a qualified instructor, YES.
                            Would our skills improve less by not training, also YES.

                            I am not looking to make a career of MMA (I am 37), i just do it because I really enjoy it. Some of the guys in the gym are far more serious but i dont believe anyone thinks they will make the UFC (well not without training somewhere else).

                            Goju-Joe, As i mentioned the club has about ten guys. Trying to build it into a full time club is not going to happen. I wouldnt be interested in this anyway as I already have a well paid full-time career.

                            Williaume, We do get qualified instructors out for seminars, etc when we can afford it and some of the guys go and train elsewhere when they can. Three of them are going to Miami for 6 weeks in August to train. A few of them have been to Brazil also. We had Sergio Babu out the month before last for a week. I also attend Matt Thorntons seminars when he comes up here.

                            I think the situation in my Gym is not uncommon in Ireland at all. I know of a huge number of clubs that are exactly the same. Remember, there is currently one Black belt in the entire country and only a couple of brown belts (3 i think) and maybe 20 purples. In fact as one of maybe 100 blue belts I am in the top 125 people in the country to teach bjj... lol. But seriously you cant compare things here to a place where there are 5 BB instructors in one gym.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jasonbrinn View Post
                              i NEVER said that the 14 years of training in BJJ qualified me to teach it jackass.

                              i was asked how long i had been training and i thought...oh wow since 1994 i guess. i never really cared before.

                              being a human and studying how they fight for 27 years qualified me to help others in the process.

                              dont make this thread about me....we have one for that.

                              try..try....TRY to answer the ?

                              how can this forum have integrity when the basis for judgement and qualification isn't stated.

                              i am willing to bet the reason is because 90% of the people on this forum don't meet what the standard would be!
                              You sound like all the anti-grapple TMA guys now... 27 years of fighting experience qualifies me... blah, blah, blah. I don't know that there is an objective standard of qualification in MMA per se because there are no real belts, but I can say that at my gym, to even get accpeted on the fight team to represent the gym, you must be have a boxing, Muay Thai, and a BJJ instructor sign off that you are ready for the fight team. That is just to train with the amateur and pro fighters that represent the gym. To train, you would need a verifiable competitive record and some objective qualifications of either rank (BJJ or Judo) or verifiable fight credentials for boxing and Muay Thai, preferably with students who have successfully competed in MMA events.

                              You can't muster ANY of that. You say that you have students who have fought... please provide names, dates, events, and outcomes. If you have no rank, then the only other way to prove your qualifications is by stepping on the mats with qualified people and demonstrating skill.

                              As to your quip about none of us meeting the qualifications, there are very skilled fighters, both amateur and professional on this board. I am nothing more than a hobbyist who does this for exercise. However, I can say that your bio doesn't seem to add up. It also sounds like you are inflating your resume. I can't judge your skill, though. If you ever step on the mats, then we will be able to tell.

                              I can say without a doubt, though, that you wouldn't impress anyone here in Las Vegas when Wanderlei Silva, Forrest Griffin, Randy Couture, Marc Laimon, Tony Frylund, ect. all have gyms within a ten mile radius of one another.

                              Comment

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