1point2: Do you teach Judo at your Isshin-Ryu school?

[Cy Q. Faunce]

^^
See, and this is the part I keyed in on:

And if he weren't trying to introduce aliveness without a reasonable background or reasonable supervision into a school with no recent experience of same, that might be reasonable. (Except for the part where he still does isshinryu, but maybe he likes hanging out there.)

[Snake Plissken]

And if he weren't trying to introduce aliveness without a reasonable background or reasonable supervision into a school with no recent experience of same, that might be reasonable. (Except for the part where he still does isshinryu, but maybe he likes hanging out there.)

True.

So I will then ask:

1point2, have you encouraged any of your current or former students to train judo?
Have any of your current or former students inquired about training judo without your asking?
If so, did you invite them to your judo dojo or encourage them to seek this training elsewhere?

[Beorn]

Ok, I am going to take one last shot at this. In a previous life, I was a TKD instructor, 2nd degree black belt and all. I am still on good terms with the majority of my school, and occasionally go back and spar/instruct/whatever. I have about a year and 4 months of judo under my belt, and I wrestled through high school. I have competed in grappling and MMA, and have very limited but on going Muay Thai experience.

There are a bunch of teenagers there interested in MMA, and they try to learn submissions off of youtube and books. Is it wrong for me, as an instructor they are paying for (even if I am not paid) to correct their armbar? How about when they are trying to do the crappy standard "takedowns" of our style to show them an Osoto Gari? How about showing them how to block their face when in black belt class we are allowed to throw hands to the face, based on my limited Muay Thai experience? I make no false claims about my rank or my skill. I don't tell them they are going to be mma fighters with what I have showed them. When they talk about fighting mma or sub grappling, I point out that Jorge Gurgel's place is ten minutes down the road. I also point out that there is a better instructor at a different branch of my TKD school who has a better MMA record and has trained at JG's if they want more advice.

Moral of the story is, I can correctly show them the techniques in question, and have used them many times against resisting opponents of various skill levels. I see no reason that 1.2's experience or demeanor should be any different. The only difference is that they do not spar with these techniques in class, as there is limited time and mat space and the head instructor is more worried about forms, sadly. I have no problem with what 1.2 is doing, as long as he is properly supervising to make sure no one spazzes out and hurts someone.

[KiwiPhil889]

From another angle. If 1.2 failed to teach the grappling that is part of the Isshin Ryu taught at his school,then he would be guilty of failing to transmit the knowledge required to gain ranking/certification. Ppl pay to get taught that type/style of MA.He is a recognised Isshin Ryu instructor,a version that incorporates grappling.He is required to teach it,and the fact that he is actively trying to improve those techniques inherent in the style, not change or otherwise add too, should be considered a good thing.

If the instructor of my class failed to teach me to the best of their ability i would be ,rightly, pretty pissed. That doesn't appear to be the case here.The fact that Isshin Ryu grappling is not on par with a full-time grappling style seems normal.

It really does come across as "he's not a BJJ instructor,so shouldn't teach any grappling" elitism.But then again some of it comes from ppl who post vids of them winning against judo white belts,with only a BJJ purple belt.

[Nefron]

The guy teaches his martial art.He tries to pressure test it by adding some free sparring.How can that be a bad thing?Are you guys trying to say that his art is too d34dly to its practitioners to be done in an alive manner?

[JohnnyCache]

The guy teaches his martial art.He tries to pressure test it by adding some free sparring.How can that be a bad thing?Are you guys trying to say that his art is too d34dly to its practitioners to be done in an alive manner?

Lifting boxes is "too d34dly" (will that piece of doggerel EVERY be dropped, btw?) to do wrong.


IRT this and the post above, it doesn't matter what's historically part of his system if he's not equipped to actually transmit it.

The argument "Well it's part of the history of his art he HAS to teach it no matter how bad he is at it" is a failure. It's an attempt to apply internet style cleverness to real life.

[King Sleepless]

In general dumbass, i dont give a flying fuck what 4point9 teaches

Well then fuck off you stupid piece of shit and never come back. We don't need your kind of double faggots here.

No, I got your point, I just think it is invalid. You are getting all pissy because an isshin-ryu karate instructor has incorporated grappling into his curriculum. You think that he is being misleading, and possibly crappling. What I am saying is that though he is not qualified to teach judo, he is in fact qualified to teach certain things based on his experience.

He has competition experience, he randoris against higher ranks on a regular basis. Anything he is teaching he has used against a fully resisting opponent numerous times. I would contend that coupling these facts with the assumption that he is a skilled teacher would make me comfortable with him teaching things he himself has used in a competitive setting, especially when it is complimentary to his art. For example, I doubt he flips through the 1001 submission book, sees a gogoplata and says "I'm gonna teach THIS today!". If he is, thats wrong. However, if he is saying "this is a sprawl to keep things standing, this is a gaurd to control your opponent if you wind up on bottom, this is how you stand up from underneath someone so you can karate them from your feet," as I would assume he is doing, he is qualified to do this.

If you or hedge don't feel comfortable teaching, I would submit it is because you are uncomfortable teaching and NOT because you are not qualified (at least hedge, I have no idea what sirc's qualifications are, if any). I know of many good bjj schools where a blue belt will be sent off to teach white belts basics. I personally have been shown many little things that have tightened my game up tremendously by various blue belts in bjj and brown belts in judo. That doesn't even mean they were necessarily more skilled grapplers than I am, just that they saw a technical flaw that if corrected, meant I would be even better.

In summation, I understand your point. I consider it rediculous. I honestly hoped that you training with Omega would somehow calm your incessant need to just spout shit about everyone from your imaginary high ground. At least when hedge does it, he has verifiable skills. Meet one person from bullshido, post one sparring video under the unified rules, give yourself one ounce of creditibility, then start speaking like you know something.

I think that you are being being ridiculous. He's teaching crappling at a place where they teach shitty krotty. How is that not wrong? Who cares if he's not "teaching judo" just "techniques." What's the difference between this and some faggot going on youtube and just learning armbars from there?

Damn sirc, you're a fucking douchebag. Quit comparing everybody else to yourself.
Just because you don't have a lick of talent when it comes to reteaching the martial arts you've learned...
I'm damn sure I'm not gonna need ten years of judo to teach someone a basic hip toss or arm throw.

Fuck you. I'm an excellent teacher. I've coached many kids in olympic TKD to be national champions.

EVEN THEN I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE TEACHING PEOPLE TKD. Fuck you. Again. And your mom. Asshole.

This is pretty much the entire story. If you read the thread in "Aikido USA: worst dojo in the history of the world" you'll get the details in exquisite e-drama form, Sirc. Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier.

As for Beorn's points, let me say that while I appreciate him having my back, I am NOT--repeat, not now and at no point in the past--coming back from my few months of judo and saying "Now I can teach this at karate!" I am not relying on my judo experience, nor my limited and poor-performing judo competition record, to teach anything at all. We specifically state that we do not teach or give rank in judo.

Sirc and Hedge--and apparently CQ--really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, seriously REALLY don't like the fact that the judo techniques incorporated by Dale Jenkins were taught as compliant.

Can someone delineate precisely what the claims are, at this point? We've got a gong sau threat, and people are apparently clamoring to judge the school. Can someone explain to me how this is different from demanding that a compliant-JJJ school prove themselves qualified to teach striking? Or different from a Hung Ga school getting involved in San Da?

I was going to dissect this, but CQ and JC have already done so. I don't need to iterate what they've already stated.

So 1.2 is not qualified to teach Isshin Ryu Karate bacause he sucks at the grappling part of the art official curriculum?

He's not qualified to teach Judo with less than a year of Judo training with a shitty record at his ISSHIN RYU KARATE dojo. That's the problem.

From another angle. If 1.2 failed to teach the grappling that is part of the Isshin Ryu taught at his school,then he would be guilty of failing to transmit the knowledge required to gain ranking/certification. Ppl pay to get taught that type/style of MA.He is a recognised Isshin Ryu instructor,a version that incorporates grappling.He is required to teach it,and the fact that he is actively trying to improve those techniques inherent in the style, not change or otherwise add too, should be considered a good thing.

If the instructor of my class failed to teach me to the best of their ability i would be ,rightly, pretty pissed. That doesn't appear to be the case here.The fact that Isshin Ryu grappling is not on par with a full-time grappling style seems normal.

It really does come across as "he's not a BJJ instructor,so shouldn't teach any grappling" elitism.But then again some of it comes from ppl who post vids of them winning against judo white belts,with only a BJJ purple belt.

The "grappling" curriculum of his art has been dead since 1984 seeing as his "grappling" instructor died in 1984. Even if, for whatever fucking reason, we gave him legitimacy, it's been over 20 years since the grappling has been alive and taught correctly. It's evolved so much since then that it's ridiculous to think they can do just pick up a judo white belt and start teaching it with "aliveness."

If you can't see the problem with this, you're either retarded or blind. Either way get off this webforum and head over to antimma.com

[King Sleepless]

The guy teaches his martial art.He tries to pressure test it by adding some free sparring.How can that be a bad thing?Are you guys trying to say that his art is too d34dly to its practitioners to be done in an alive manner?

Are you stupid?

I think you are. This isn't like riding a bicycle numbskull. You can't just get back on your judo bicycle and pick it up again. You quit for 20+ years and get back on it and you'll falll down... a lot.

As sexy as I think Judo is, he isn't Justin Timberlake and he's incapable of bringing it back. All us motherfuckers know exactly how to act.

[Nefron]

Oh snap!Sirc called me stupid.

Ok.So you think that his martial art can't be done with aliveness and he should stop trying right now?

[King Sleepless]

Oh snap!Sirc called me stupid.

Ok.So you think that his martial art can't be done with aliveness and he should stop trying right now?

Judo isn't his art.

Isshin Ryu Karate is.

[Beorn]

I think that you are being being ridiculous. He's teaching crappling at a place where they teach shitty krotty. How is that not wrong? Who cares if he's not "teaching judo" just "techniques." What's the difference between this and some faggot going on youtube and just learning armbars from there?

I am sorry you take offense at my spelling, but I believe you get my point, however dumb you try to play. We both know 1.2 is studying under a legit judo instructor and that is completely different from studying under some youtube master. I also don't believe he is crapppling. I believe he is using what he knows to compliment his art. If he did not understand the concepts behind the techniques, or if he were unable to use these techniques against resisting opponents, I would agree with you. But I don't think thats the case. If it turns out that his students have no concept of proper movement and seem to be using hedge's "pokemon" approach, I will agree with you.

[WhiteShark]

I don't have time to read this whole thread but I will state one thing about Bullshido. Too many people get up in arms about inexperienced teachers when there is no money changing hands. Money changes hands or rank is given you better be legit. If not you're just a dumbass.

[Nefron]

I won't pretend to know shit about his style, but to my understanding his style of Isshin Ryu has some elements of Judo, and he teaches only the techniques that are officially a part of his style.As an instructor, he is required to teach them.

[PointyShinyBurn]

I won't pretend to know shit about his style, but to my understanding his style of Isshin Ryu has some elements of Judo, and he teaches only the techniques that are officially a part of his style.As an instructor, he is required to teach them.

Which leads inevitably to the question of why, if he has accepted the premises on which this website is based, he continues to train and, more importantly, teach Isshin Ryu.

Care to answer 1point2?

[King Sleepless]

I don't have time to read this whole thread but I will state one thing about Bullshido. Too many people get up in arms about inexperienced teachers when there is no money changing hands. Money changes hands or rank is given you better be legit. If not you're just a dumbass.

He is a PAID instructor teaching Isshin Ryu and crappling judo.

I am sorry you take offense at my spelling, but I believe you get my point, however dumb you try to play. We both know 1.2 is studying under a legit judo instructor and that is completely different from studying under some youtube master. I also don't believe he is crapppling. I believe he is using what he knows to compliment his art. If he did not understand the concepts behind the techniques, or if he were unable to use these techniques against resisting opponents, I would agree with you. But I don't think thats the case. If it turns out that his students have no concept of proper movement and seem to be using hedge's "pokemon" approach, I will agree with you.

You don't think that maybe he's doing these things as you've stated. He has stated he is teaching newaza with resistance to students having only been in judo all of 7ish months. For someone who's never done any kind of grappling who also has a shitty competition record, I don't think you're doing anybody anything but a disservice by teaching them "basic" techniques on the ground. The basics are more important than anything and learning bad and shitty habits will be hell to fix later should you choose a real grappling art.

I won't pretend to know shit about his style, but to my understanding his style of Isshin Ryu has some elements of Judo, and he teaches only the techniques that are officially a part of his style.As an instructor, he is required to teach them.

Uhh... They incorporated SOME Judo techqniques back before 1984 when his instructor couldn't defeat death with a knife-hand block into a hammerfist strike in horse stance. He's trying to teach ground techniques with 7 months of judo with resistance.

Back in the early 60's TKD had a lot of punches and throws in it. Should I go back to my TKD school and start teaching throws that I've learned in the last 3 months of Judo?

I don't think so.