"It gets SO much f***ing better than that Arch! You have NO IDEA, I'm LEAVING!"

[WakelessDragon]

G-Off,

I've left many studios in my time. While most here might disagree, I find the best way to leave a "school" is to be straight-up. Tactfully tell them how you feel and that you are looking to broaden your knowledge base with other styles and/or instructors.

I found being straight-froward and thankful is the best way to leave. You shouldn't have to make up a "story" or embellish current life events to leave a dojo. You should have integrity in all you do. Sorry, I'm a traditionalist.

[AKRhino]

Can't you just say something like "after much consideration I have decided it is time for me to move on. Thank you all for everything, goodbye."

You don't have to elaborate further than that.

[kwoww]

I left my old dojang months before testing for instructor and managed to stay on good terms with everyone there. Just be direct, courteous, respectful, and try to sound grateful. You don't need to say "I'm moving on to something better," just say "I've decided that [whatever-do] just doesn't mean to me what it used to, and really I'm more drawn to [whatever-fu]. It's a hard decision, but I feel like it's where my martial arts path is taking me. I'm really going to miss Generic Family Fitness and everyone I've worked with here."

Whatever you do, don't flat-out lie. That'll come back to bite you in the ass somehow.

Tell the guy in charge (the head instructor) first, so you can work out a plan for winding down your time at the school, which is particularly important if you do any kind of teaching. Work out who to tell in what order, and when, and set a definite timetable for your departure.

As for the letter, I never had the guts to ask my old instructor for a recommendation letter, partially because I left a little more rapidly than I should have. Don't make that mistake: put some extra willpower into looking like you really are sad to go. Come back and visit the dojo once in a while, shake some hands and maybe even show your old instructor what, exactly, you've moved on to (but only if he asks!). Then ask him for one final favor: that letter.

[G-Off]

Can't you just say something like "after much consideration I have decided it is time for me to move on. Thank you all for everything, goodbye."

You don't have to elaborate further than that.

If I didn't want to still use the recommendation letter, yes. Grad schools do check references on the letter, and no matter how good they are (maybe especially if they're really good), if the person who wrote it no longer supports what they wrote in the letter, it's quite bad for you.

If not for the letter, I'd feel comfortable doing something more brief because hey, if they're actually friends, they're going to still want to talk to me anyway, right? If not, it was only based on having Tang Soo in common, so no big loss.

Anyway, conversation #1 is tomorrow night, wish me luck.

As for the letter, I never had the guts to ask my old instructor for a recommendation letter, partially because I left a little more rapidly than I should have. Don't make that mistake: put some extra willpower into looking like you really are sad to go. Come back and visit the dojo once in a while, shake some hands and maybe even show your old instructor what, exactly, you've moved on to (but only if he asks!). Then ask him for one final favor: that letter.

Actually, the letter's already written and in my possession as a digital copy. I just need permission to still use it. As I said above, the school will definitely check references of the people who wrote my letters...therefore I need all of them to still hold a positive opinion of me.

[Dsimon3387]

I am in the honesty camp. Wholeheartedly. You know I can give you a teachers perspective here and would say that students have their rights, responsabilites and so does the teacher.... both often violate these covenants though and it is a shame.... the worse violation being imo that both teachers and students somehow get the impression that the other owes em something... I talk to other teachers and they often act like this. It drives me nuts.

You know what to tell your teachers at your school? "I respect you enough that I owe you honesty" cause you do. Then tell them how you feel and that you like them as people. You are done. Students should look at other arts and train in other places. It is healthy and right. Commercial schools are businesses but martial arts first, you can remind them of that if an issue is made.

As a teacher what I hate more than anything is dishonesty... for one very important and stupid reason: It repeats itself in one statement that almost all students make to me and it drives me nuts.... "I want to learn this to defend myself and for the philosophy." So usually with a student, because 90% of my students utter some semblance of this remark, we start the relationship off on the wrong foot! Lovely! Sort of like taking agirl out and on the first date she cheats and it is time to make a follow up haha... I am being slightly facetious here.

[G-Off]

As a teacher what I hate more than anything is dishonesty... for one very important and stupid reason: It repeats itself in one statement that almost all students make to me and it drives me nuts.... "I want to learn this to defend myself and for the philosophy." So usually with a student, because 90% of my students utter some semblance of this remark, we start the relationship off on the wrong foot! Lovely! Sort of like taking agirl out and on the first date she cheats and it is time to make a follow up haha... I am being slightly facetious here.

I'm not sure what you mean here...which part of that statement is dishonest? Do the students not really want to learn the philosophy?

[Dsimon3387]

I'm not sure what you mean here...which part of that statement is dishonest? Do the students not really want to learn the philosophy?

The dishonesty is that it is a "pat" answer. An Answer designed to please the person asking the question. I don't blame students but believe me when I say that 10 different people have complete different drives for wanting to learn what they think martial arts is. Hold on to that last sentence and bear with me.

That is what happened to you in a sense my friend... you matured enough to have a realisation. martial arts changed for you. Maybe you thought originally that Tang Soo Do would allow you to kick ass and beat up your demons and you learned that despite the romantic notions of how your school played into notions that this art was great... well you became discriminating and said "the empror has no clothes"

My point here is to show you that both your school and you had a notion of what martial arts should be... the romance lasted a while... You did something very mature, you looked past the idealizations and decided you want something more authentic. That takes maturity, confidance and growth...

Now imagine if you had went into this whole martial arts thing with a totally up front idea about wanting to fight... and imagine if your school had honestly answered that request with a statement such as "we are not the best combat system, we are about comraderie, commercial success and community.... You both might have done things a bit differently yes?

Don't misunderstand me. Its never too late and your realization is timely. You will be a better slugger, grappler, tough guy because of it... I guess the teacher in me just wants to point out to you all the reasons why that is, including the deception that we all operate under initially....

Truthfully very few people are really interested in the philosophy of the art. Most people are there because of why you came there: I will let you figure that one out, but if you are honest with yourself it might be a personal reason of some sort and involve big elephants in a small room like insecurity, etc.

Let me edit this post to be fair and share my reasons: when I was 13 years old I moved to Baltimore and knew that even though I came from a tough hood (New York) I was ripe for a major ass kicking. My first day in the dojo (around 1979) my karate teacher beat me up badly and then shook my hand and hugged me warmly. AS a stupid kid I figured "well when sensei kicks my ass he is teaching me something and he at least has my well being in mind as compared to the guy in school who might do the same... guess I will come back to karate class... and I did just that for about 15 years (til moving to another art).

[ysc87]

As a teacher what I hate more than anything is dishonesty...

I think this is true for just about any relationship, deep or shallow. Only difference between a close teacher-student relationship and an actual one is sex.


...Wait, nevermind. ><

Let's just put the difference down as "learning."'

*edit* Technically, that's wrong too. Fuck it, ignore me.

[willaume]

Why don’t you leave after the reference had been checked?
You been with them donkeys already and that is just a few month away. You are not training there anymore other than teaching the Wednesday class.

You are going to move away to that grad school and you would like to broaden your horizon by taking up boxing and BJJ because you are interested into experiencing a heavier contact competitive approach /want to develop you ground game, perfect your punching game technique. Just to see how it is, if nothing else it is something that you want to try.

You can still teach the Wednesday call for old and good time sake. Besides it is experience in teaching.

If I were you I would work on a tidy explanation as to how it comes that their letter of recommendation is good enough but really you have been doing crap stuff for 16 years, especially if that letter is central to your recruitment process.
question along those line are likely to crop up.

Phil

[Dsimon3387]

I think this is true for just about any relationship, deep or shallow. Only difference between a close teacher-student relationship and an actual one is sex.


...Wait, nevermind. ><

Let's just put the difference down as "learning."'

*edit* Technically, that's wrong too. Fuck it, ignore me.

haha that is a big issue. It comes up you are actually quite right. It takes a lot to not explore the avenue of sex because as a teacher you feel like you have a bit of an advantage in the relationship (more than a bit really), a bit more power than the other person. I mean sometimes it could work, but so many times its a setup because that power and charm only goes so far.... Angelie Jolie is easy on the eyes but if I was Brad Pitt and saw her in her draws every morning? I mean she its still Angelie but....
Naturally after a while that aspect just does not sustain. When a student finds out that the teacher is just another foible laden joe or josephine, what happens?

[Lebell]

G-off,

here's what you could do: bring some BJJ teacher with you.
You go: hi, im training at this other school now and here's why...GET HIM CARLOS!!!(most brazilians named carlos anyway)
After the BJJ dude is done wtfpawning him then you say casually: ' oh and i'd like that letter of recomendation now if its okay with you?'

you get the letter and your point across.
total win.

[willaume]

G-off,

here's what you could do: bring some BJJ teacher with you.
You go: hi, im training at this other school now and here's why...GET HIM CARLOS!!!(most brazilians named carlos anyway)
After the BJJ dude is done wtfpawning him then you say casually: ' oh and i'd like that letter of recomendation now if its okay with you?'

you get the letter and your point across.
total win.

[G-Off]

Our resident brazilian is actually named Rafael.

Think I'll save that option for if they don't want to give me the reference though.

[Ungjaevel]

I don't know what kind of grad school you're applying to, but I've found that people give grad school entrance exams like the LSATs and GREs a pretty wide berth.

[G-Off]

***UPDATE***

Had the first conversation with the studio head's son. Could not have gone better.

Basically, I was honest, told him my heart wasn't in it anymore, wanted to try competition while I was young(ish) and injury free, and explore something new. Thanked him and told him I was grateful for the years of training and teaching, but that I needed a new direction.

He was awesome about it, told me first that he'd seen it coming (ever since I started sparring with friends and coming to class with the occasional black eye, I think), that he supported my decision, and had even felt the "pull" to compete himself. Basically, his focus had changed since having a family, and MMA training wasn't as widely available when he was my age...essentially, he understood and supported me completely, no hard feelings.

I'm going to email the studio owner tonight and ask him to meet with me tomorrow on campus. He's less chill than his son, so we'll see how it goes...being halfway there feels good.

I don't know what kind of grad school you're applying to, but I've found that people give grad school entrance exams like the LSATs and GREs a pretty wide berth.

GRE scores aren't a problem. I just want my chances as high as possible.