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Taekwondo can be dangerous...in REAL LIFE

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    #31
    all that is the major complaint agiainst TKD is its impractibility and unrealism of its techniques. However in a Dojang where the master teaches Kickboxing and TKD you would expect a cross or some knowlege on how to apply the TKD techinques in reality... if anyone was in a real fight they wouldnt use fancy kicks they would use the biggest weapon they could find and bludgeon the opponent over the head with it

    Peace

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      #32
      Originally posted by Shadowofravenwolf
      Why do people blame the art for the McDojos out there?
      Ok. Looks like I'll be the one to take the shot across the bow seeing as how this is the Bullshido board and TKD is largely Bullshido everytime I've seen it:

      TKD doesn't work. The reasons it doesn't work are the the principles of combat taught are broken. It doesn't matter how hard you spar with it because the techniques, even if done to perfection, will rarely work against a larger opponent. Don't dodge the question by saying "It's the dojo's fault." because this is a cop out. TKD doesn't work for several very good basic reasons:

      1) Too much reliance on kicks, especially high kicks.
      2) Sparring is almost always trained such that you pull your punches so you never learn follow-through.
      3) People in TKD who are seen as those to emulate use flashy moves so this is what everyone copies.
      4) The stances, which emphasize kicking, are too inflexible at the expense of other techniques (takedown defense, hand strikes, etc.).
      5) 99.9% of the fighters from TKD schools can't fight as a result of 1-4 above. So there is a 99.9% chance when you are training you are practicing with someone who sucks so you don't improve.

      BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, Shootfighting, etc. work because they are used at full speed against people who don't want ot get hit, grabbed, taken down, or submitted. Until these other systems adopt similar training practices they will never be effective because weak technique is allowed to remain as part of the core curriculum.

      I suggest this guy get his brother taking some grappling. The next time this big guy fights him he'll take him to the ground pound him. Taking more TKD is not going to solve this kid's problem.

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        #33
        Originally posted by HattoriHanzo
        This goes for ALL TKD dojos not just the MCDojo ones. Except the sensei says to the people that this is just a sport not something you could actually use, that would be OK. But unfortunatly they dont do that cause if they did they wouldnt get as many people to train in their dojos..
        Bullshit.

        I trained at a great dojang, who taught practical kicking, and punching.

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          #34
          I think I am as fed up as Osiris when it comes to this constant ass humping on TKD.
          Give me a break guys, just because the majority of people that practise the SPORT of TKD can only fight in the sport of TKD means ZERO.
          Look at the REAL Martial Artists of TKD.
          I can't speak for anyone else but, I have seen TKD guys like Mike Warren, Dino Hennings and Yes I have seen clips of Park Jong Soo when he was younger and I would NOT want to go up against ANY of them.
          So, yes the majority of SPORT TKD can ONLy fight withing that style of fighting, so what? that goes for MOST SPORT MA also.

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            #35
            [QUOTE]Originally posted by Osiris
            [B]"1) Too much reliance on kicks, especially high kicks"

            True.

            Originally posted by Osiris


            "2) Sparring is almost always trained such that you pull your punches so you never learn follow-through."

            Bullshit.
            I've seen this at countless dojos. What's even worse is when the advanced belts do decide to put some power into the strike the sparring frequently looks like a cat fight because the opponent, through years of bad training, hasn't learned how to block or absorb hard hits.


            Originally posted by Osiris


            "3) People in TKD who are seen as those to emulate use flashy moves so this is what everyone copies."

            Bullshit.
            Look at the marketing literature, tournament demo teams, etc. This stuff is all emphasized in the TKD curriculum. It's pervasive.

            Originally posted by Osiris


            "4) The stances, which emphasize kicking, are too inflexible at the expense of other techniques (takedown defense, hand strikes, etc.)."

            Bullshit.
            Most TKD schools don't practice grappling and takedowns so they develop stances that are easy to shoot in on. Of the schools that I've seen that do practice it (and thankfully this is becoming more common) they don't practice it enough so they're still easy to clinch.

            Originally posted by Osiris


            "5) 99.9% of the fighters from TKD schools can't fight as a result of 1-4 above."

            Bullshit. They cant fight because they dont try. Most people in the WTF arent even considered competent by their pwn standards. Its not just fighting the suck at, but TKD as well.
            Exactly my point: 99.9% of TKD fighters can't fight because they don't try. That's exactly what I'm saying. If they did try they'd find out that most of what they learned didn't work. When you push a TKD fighter who has actually done hard contact they almost always end up fighting like a Thai boxer. Imagine that. No more fancy kicks and punches that actually hurt.

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              #36
              Originally posted by ronin69
              I think I am as fed up as Osiris when it comes to this constant ass humping on TKD.
              Give me a break guys, just because the majority of people that practise the SPORT of TKD can only fight in the sport of TKD means ZERO.
              Look at the REAL Martial Artists of TKD.
              I can't speak for anyone else but, I have seen TKD guys like Mike Warren, Dino Hennings and Yes I have seen clips of Park Jong Soo when he was younger and I would NOT want to go up against ANY of them.
              So, yes the majority of SPORT TKD can ONLy fight withing that style of fighting, so what? that goes for MOST SPORT MA also.
              I'd agree with you on all of this. The main problem though is that finding good TKD fighters is significantly difficult whereas finding competent BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai people who can fight is a much higher percentage. If you have to train at a school and use your time and money do you want to learn the style that turns out one great fighter out of, say, 100,000 students or the style that turns out a competent (and frequently great) fighter almost every time? That's the problem with TKD. It's not that *every* dojo is bad, it's just that *most* every dojo is bad. That means if you're learning the style for self-defense you have a much higher likelihood of going to a bad TKD school over a bad BJJ/Muay Thai/Boxing school.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by katana

                1) Too much reliance on kicks, especially high kicks.
                Again, that is the teachers fault, not the art. We were taught High kicks for show, put mid to low kicks for the real deal. It's not rocket science. I think anyone could figure that out for themselves.

                2) Sparring is almost always trained such that you pull your punches so you never learn follow-through.
                In the begining yes, later on, you go as hard as your comfortable.

                3) People in TKD who are seen as those to emulate use flashy moves so this is what everyone copies.
                Blame the media for teaching that's how people fight.

                They only time we used flashy techs was for demonstartions and gradeings. Again a good school with drill into you, there useless outside the dojang.

                4) The stances, which emphasize kicking, are too inflexible at the expense of other techniques (takedown defense, hand strikes, etc.).
                I never found this, but then again, I haven't trained at every school. We did take down techniques, and our hand strikes were great.

                5) 99.9% of the fighters from TKD schools can't fight as a result of 1-4 above. So there is a 99.9% chance when you are training you are practicing with someone who sucks so you don't improve.
                Oh so I take it you've fought every TKD practicioner on the planet, and you can verify these results?

                BJJ, Muay Thai, Boxing, Shootfighting, etc. work because they are used at full speed against people who don't want ot get hit, grabbed, taken down, or submitted. Until these other systems adopt similar training practices they will never be effective because weak technique is allowed to remain as part of the core curriculum.
                I also agree those styles work. TKD is incomplete, any compitant TKD knows this.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by ronin69
                  I think I am as fed up as Osiris when it comes to this constant ass humping on TKD.
                  Give me a break guys, just because the majority of people that practise the SPORT of TKD can only fight in the sport of TKD means ZERO.
                  Look at the REAL Martial Artists of TKD.
                  I can't speak for anyone else but, I have seen TKD guys like Mike Warren, Dino Hennings and Yes I have seen clips of Park Jong Soo when he was younger and I would NOT want to go up against ANY of them.
                  So, yes the majority of SPORT TKD can ONLy fight withing that style of fighting, so what? that goes for MOST SPORT MA also.
                  Park Jong soo trained my former instructor.

                  I would not want to fight my instructor for real either.

                  I agree with Ronin and Osiris

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I have to blame the WTF, if there is a sole responsible factor for the detioration of martial skill in TKD, its the WTF.
                    That said, I wish MORE TKD stylist woould WANT to be fighters.
                    Also, I have to say that, when I first saw TKD it had locks and throws, much like Hapkido, now... I have yet to see that in a WTF Dojang.
                    I know a few TKD that have added ground fighting to their repetoire.
                    I wish more people would look at their art and fill in the gaps that are lacking.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by katana
                      I'd agree with you on all of this. The main problem though is that finding good TKD fighters is significantly difficult whereas finding competent BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai people who can fight is a much higher percentage. If you have to train at a school and use your time and money do you want to learn the style that turns out one great fighter out of, say, 100,000 students or the style that turns out a competent (and frequently great) fighter almost every time? That's the problem with TKD. It's not that *every* dojo is bad, it's just that *most* every dojo is bad. That means if you're learning the style for self-defense you have a much higher likelihood of going to a bad TKD school over a bad BJJ/Muay Thai/Boxing school.

                      Again, don't blame the style. It's not it's fault that most practicioners blow.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by ronin69
                        I have to blame the WTF, if there is a sole responsible factor for the detioration of martial skill in TKD, its the WTF.
                        That said, I wish MORE TKD stylist woould WANT to be fighters.
                        Also, I have to say that, when I first saw TKD it had locks and throws, much like Hapkido, now... I have yet to see that in a WTF Dojang.
                        I know a few TKD that have added ground fighting to their repetoire.
                        I wish more people would look at their art and fill in the gaps that are lacking.

                        ITF deserves blame as well.

                        I see them going more and more the pure sport route.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Osiris
                          As for finding a good school, yeh, thats hard. That would be why I practice jiujitsu instead. Im just not dumb enough to think that every TKDer is and fights like a 12 year old green belt who hasnt trained in 6 months.
                          Yeah, but since we're in a BJJ craze now, how long before McDojos spring up for that art?

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                            #43
                            when I first saw TKD it had locks and throws, much like Hapkido,

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Osiris
                              "Yeah, but since we're in a BJJ craze now, how long before McDojos spring up for that art?"

                              Never. If you run a BS bjj school, theyll beat the fuck out of you. They take the art seriously and deal with rivals seriously.

                              "Did they not also originally teach knife defenses, plus weapons like staff and throwing stars?"

                              Some teach staff and some use hapkido knife defenses, but THROWING STARS?
                              Ahh I see.

                              I'm not as optimistic as you, but since I've never trained in a bjj school, I'll take your word for it.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Shadowofravenwolf
                                ITF deserves blame as well.

                                I see them going more and more the pure sport route.

                                Comment

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