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Bas, MMA and Pancrase

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    Bas, MMA and Pancrase

    I was trying to determine Bas' MMA record. Does any one know when in 1998 Pancrase adopted modern MMA rules and whether his match against Kengo Wanatabe was under the new rules?
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

    #2
    I've got the Bas career DVD ("That's the shot that broke his liver", awesome). All his Pancrase matches were under the old bootytastic, rope-escaping, pimp-slapping rules. The give-away is that he beat Watanabe by TKO(Lost Points).

    Was it definitely in 1998 that they switched to something like normal MMA rules? I thought it was later...

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      #3
      The earliest match with the modern rules I remember was Funaki/Braga on 4/18/1999 so 1998 (wikipedia) is plausible. It is weird to me that Bas' record in MMA is just 3-0 with one match against a scrub, and a dubious decision over Randleman. I think he's an awesome ambassador for the sport, and a great fighter, but it seems like his only clear win over a good fighter in MMA is the fight with TK. Weird.
      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
      Luta Livre flees the fight,
      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
        It is weird to me that Bas' record in MMA is just 3-0 with one match against a scrub, and a dubious decision over Randleman. I think he's an awesome ambassador for the sport, and a great fighter, but it seems like his only clear win over a good fighter in MMA is the fight with TK.
        Weird how? Most people consider Pancrase either 'MMA' or close enough to it that his victories there 'count' in his ranking as an MMA fighter.

        Edit:
        YouTube - Bas Rutten vs Kengo Watanabe
        Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 3/25/2009 7:18am, .

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
          Weird how? Most people consider Pancrase either 'MMA' or close enough to it that his victories there 'count' in his ranking as an MMA fighter.

          Edit:
          YouTube - Bas Rutten vs Kengo Watanabe
          Really? By today's standards its more like Ammy Shootfighting. No head-punch slap fights with rope escapes and 10 counts. I can understand counting the Shooto fights of the day as MMA because it really was very close to todays rules, but pancrase was not even close in its standup aspect (until the new rules).

          I know FightFinder has always counted these fights, but that's really just one dudes opinion. I guess mine is not to count early Pancrase fights, but that's just me.

          Anyway, I always assumed a lot of Bas' fights were under the modern rules until I saw the thing about 1998 on wikipedia. I didn't really follow Pancrase closely back in the day, so that came as a surprise. I don't doubt Bas' ability, but strictly speaking he hasn't proven much in MMA IMHO.
          Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


          KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

          In De Janerio, in blackest night,
          Luta Livre flees the fight,
          Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
          Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
            I don't doubt Bas' ability, but strictly speaking he hasn't proven much in MMA IMHO.
            Fair point. He was always pretty easy to take down in Pancrase and in a lot of his early fights he got worked positionally, lasted till the ref standup and then knocked the guy out. How he would've fared with GnP is an open question.

            Bottom line is that he accomplished a ridiculous amount in the rules that he fought under and then actively sought more open competition when it was available. He also played a big part in training a lot of equally scary fighters

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn View Post
              How he would've fared with GnP is an open question.
              Fairly open question... there are the two UFC fights. What's your opinion of the Bas/Randleman fight? I thought he was doing OK from the bottom, and he got 1 really good kick in standing, but Kevin dominated position and IIRC had 100% success with his shoot. Very close.

              YouTube - Bas Rutten and Kevin Randleman Clash
              Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


              KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

              In De Janerio, in blackest night,
              Luta Livre flees the fight,
              Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
              Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

              Comment


                #8
                I always considered Bas an ambasador of the sport because he was one of the ones who was doing it before they started the "MMA" rule set. I think he did a lot in his day to make MMA what it is today. However, if you a strictly speaking, he doesn't have an extensive MMA record. It is kind of like Tank Abbot counting his thousand streat fights. It was another pre-curser to MMA/NHB.

                MMA has evolved a lot since the Bas days but also Bas has evolved with it. If he wasn't so bad off with his knees, it would be interesting to see him in the game today.

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