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    Another new guy

    As instructed, here is my first post:

    I'm 17, will finish high school in three months, and I currently train kickboxing. When I graduate, I will move to Copenhagen (capital of Denmark) to study, and hopefully train Krav Maga.

    I train kickboxing to get in better shape, and because I wanted to try martial arts. It works really great for me, and its nice to know that next time I will have a fight, I will have more to show. I don't believe that kickboxing will do me much good against 3 psychopaths with knives in a dark alley, with a girl on my arm to protect, so I hope that Krav maga will up to that job.

    Krav maga claims to be generally more effective than other martial arts, becuase it designed to meet every possible attack, instead of relying on tradition. What is the general opinion on Krav Maga on this forum?

    Amongst other reasons, I joined this forum to find out (for myself) how to discern BS from fact in martial arts.

    I'm interested in kickboxing (because that is what I train, and know something about), krav maga (because I plan to train it in the near future for many reasons), brazilian jui-jitsu (because I've tried a few techniques and they seem very effective, and because i'm impressed that Royce Gracie could defeat everyone else in the UFC), Jeet kune do (maybe I will try it someday).
    Also, though I think that my English is ok, it is my third language, so some phrases or words might seem weird to you. If anything, ask me to elaborate.

    #2
    www.martialarts.dk . It's run by the head coach of CSA.

    Comment


      #3
      For how long did you train kickboxing?How do you like it?
      Krav Maga can probably get you in a good mindset but its techniques surely won't help you against 3 armed opponents.Nothing will.The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to stay away from dark alleys.

      Comment


        #4

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
          Does "compliant" mean that it's arranged between the fighters? aka lack of aliveness?
          What does "sub-par" mean?
          Compliant means training against arranged attacks.One guy throws a punch the other catches it and does an armlock.The first guys doesn't resist.He doesn't try to escape.
          Sub par means below average.

          Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
          I like the thing about both KM and JKD that they block and attack at the same time, it seems very effective. And I have seen Fight Quest and Human Weapon episodes about KM and I was very impressed.
          Blocking and attacking at the same time is a very unproved concept and generally doesn't end well.Human weapon is a load of bullshit.

          Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
          I am a bit surprised, because I though it was the other way round: KM + JKD = aliveness, MMA + BBJ = arranged ring fights. Is it possible to get an unbiased analysis of this?
          You can never train Krav Maga with full force because its "too deadly",so you can only drill techniques with compliant partners.Thus,you won't really know will the technique work if someone resists it.
          MMA is the closest you will get to no rules fight.In MMA/BJJ/Kickboxing you get to test your skill against a fully resisting opponent who is trying to do the same to you.You hit people all the time,and people hit you witch is the essential part of training.That is what the aliveness is all about.

          That is exactly what aliveness is all about.Resistance.Yes,you train under a fairly limited ruleset but IMHO it will offer you more than Krav Maga/JKD.Its full contact,so you will learn how to kick and punch really hard.

          Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
          Of course, I will try to avoid a real fight if I can, but sometimes it's unavoidable. Isn't KM the best defence I can get in the situation I describe? Are you saying that MMA or BJJ is better for that?
          I personaly never trained in KM.It depends on the school alot.Some Krav Maga schools teach reallistic stuff and some are total bullshit.I would personaly stick with kickboxing,and if you have the time try some grappling.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Shawarma View Post
            If interested in hard effective training, have a look at the MMA schools around CPH, of which CSA is probably the most popular these days.
            I checked out the website, it looks really interesting! Even though I really enjoy kickboxing, I think I would choose either BJJ or MMA. If I should choose CSA.

            Anyways, I think that I will eventaully end up trying both. I will have to see for myself.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nefron View Post
              Compliant means training against arranged attacks.One guy throws a punch the other catches it and does an armlock.The first guys doesn't resist.He doesn't try to escape.
              Sub par means below average.
              Ok, thanks.

              Originally posted by Nefron View Post
              Blocking and attacking at the same time is a very unproved concept and generally doesn't end well.Human weapon is a load of bullshit.
              Hmm, ok. I don't really have a valid argument to counter that, but if Bruce Lee did it (which he presumably did, if he incorporated it in JKD), then doesn't that show that there must be something to it? Also, to me, it's logical that in order to exploit the fact that you are vurnerable while you strike, you block the strike, while striking yourself at the same time. But again, I've never tried it, or even seen it in action.

              Originally posted by Nefron View Post
              You can never train Krav Maga with full force because its "too deadly",so you can only drill techniques with compliant partners.Thus,you won't really know will the technique work if someone resists it.
              MMA is the closest you will get to no rules fight.In MMA/BJJ/Kickboxing you get to test your skill against a fully resisting opponent who is trying to do the same to you.You hit people all the time,and people hit you witch is the essential part of training.That is what the aliveness is all about.
              Ok, you can only train KM with compliant partners, but if you try every possible way of attacking and resisting, doesn't that solve the problem? Is it really necessary to try it at full strenght, if it's the same movement?
              I can certainly see your point, but isn't MMA dangerous to train then, with so few rules, full contact?

              Originally posted by Nefron View Post
              That is exactly what aliveness is all about.Resistance.Yes,you train under a fairly limited ruleset but IMHO it will offer you more than Krav Maga/JKD.Its full contact,so you will learn how to kick and punch really hard.
              Sometimes when we spare, I find myself thinking "In a real fight I could just launch right at him, pin him down, and lock his arm". In MMA that is part of the training, but in kickboxing that is illegal. So how is that realistic?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
                Ok, thanks.

                Hmm, ok. I don't really have a valid argument to counter that, but if Bruce Lee did it (which he presumably did, if he incorporated it in JKD), then doesn't that show that there must be something to it? Also, to me, it's logical that in order to exploit the fact that you are vurnerable while you strike, you block the strike, while striking yourself at the same time. But again, I've never tried it, or even seen it in action.
                Bruce Lee doesn't have any documented fights.He is more of a philosopher then a fighter.Many people consider him some martial arts god without any proof.

                Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
                Ok, you can only train KM with compliant partners, but if you try every possible way of attacking and resisting, doesn't that solve the problem? Is it really necessary to try it at full strenght, if it's the same movement?
                I can certainly see your point, but isn't MMA dangerous to train then, with so few rules, full contact?
                Everyone has a plan until they get hit.Learning to strike and be striked by a resisting opponent is the most important part of your training.Also,its more fluid.You don't drill separated specific scenarios so you can see where the fight can take you.
                You will very rarely go all out in training.There is protective equipment and you use a decent amount of contact,but you can always test your skills in competition.You can't get good at fighting without fighting.

                Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
                Sometimes when we spare, I find myself thinking "In a real fight I could just launch right at him, pin him down, and lock his arm". In MMA that is part of the training, but in kickboxing that is illegal. So how is that realistic?
                If a kickboxer meets a SKILLED grappler,the kickboxer is in trouble.Lots of street fights are just fist fights,and learning to throw a punch and evade one is very important.
                Fighting full contact under a fairly limited ruleset is better than just theorizing about fighting.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Ok. MMA looks very tempting, it's like a combo of kickboxing and BJJ. And it is closer to kickboxing than KM. I think I will start with that. Maybe look into KM at a later point.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hello FranzZdyb, welcome to Bullshido. A few things:
                    1. When it comes to Krav Maga, it is indeed one of the most effective martial arts in the world... if you specifically learn from an Israeli special ops person trained in it. An overwhelming majority of Krav Maga outside of Israel, however, is much less effectively for much of the reasons people in this thread have already provided. It is definitely an art to be cautious of.

                    2. While Krav Maga is an art to be wary of, JKD is something you want to avoid altogether unless you find someone certified under someone like Dan Inosanto or Terry Gibson (or both, as my Sifu is). Most people not certified under them usually learn Wing Chun and a couple other arts then market themselves as JKD. A good test of JKD is to see how eclectic it is and how much the teacher has molded it to their own personal use; if they just use Wing Chun with a bit of a boxing influence and a couple basic standing locks, Bullshido. If they actually fight using an efficient style with moves from many arts (which is what Bruce Lee intended, since the basic idea of JKD is to take what works from each art), then they might be okay.

                    3. Aliveness is what you need if you want to effectively learn anything. I know its been said, but it can't be stressed enough. If you're not taught to resist in drills then in real life you'll be unprepared for any type of fight. If you want to learn how to fight in real life here are a few arts and their strengths:
                    - BJJ: One of the most effective ways of to restrain someone, this is group fighting at its finest.
                    - Judo: Like BJJ, but less ground work and more throwing.
                    - Muay Thai: While BJJ is very effective in keeping someone on the group, Muay Thai is one of the best things you can learn for your standing offense.
                    - Boxing: An excellent thing to cross train with Muay Thai, which gives you the foot work and punches some Muay Thai places don't teach to their students.
                    - Silat: Good to use to make sure your opponent won't get back up, but this art is hard to find and can't be used in most competitions.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Great reply, thanks! Why is bjj group fighting at its finest? You definitely cleared some things up for me. What is your opinion of MMA?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by FranzZdyb View Post
                        Great reply, thanks! Why is bjj group fighting at its finest? You definitely cleared some things up for me. What is your opinion of MMA?
                        BJJ has two things to its advantage: 1. it uses very practical techniques and 2. it emphasizes aliveness through resisting opponents and full practice sessions. A lot of arts have one or the other, but rarely both.

                        I have generally positive feelings on MMA. It has very little rules compared to most tournaments, which means you get to see what works from some styles and what doesn't. Their training also means they are very strong and well conditioned. Their rules give them a small handicap in real life fighting situations, but this is remidied by their intense and alive training which means their lack in techniques that destroy their opponents is remidied by how strong and fast their training has made both their offensive and defensive measures. You can know the deadliest technique in the world, but if you don't practice it often and against resistence it will do very little good.

                        Aliveness training can even be used (and should be used) for defense against dangerous situations as long as you are careful. For example, when I do knife disarm training with my Sifu, he uses a fake knife so he can attack with it full force. After a couple times slowly practicing the technique behind a disarm, he will gradually increase the speed and force of his attack to the point where if I don't block his attack I will have a bruised rib the next day because of how much power and speed he puts into it. If a teacher ever wants to practice a knife disarm with you with a real knife this is a terrible idea for one of two reasons: 1. if he plans to give his attacks any sort of aliveness, then someone will get hurt or (and this is the more common reason) 2. he will train you will no sort of aliveness whatsoever, and when you actually get attacked by a knife then you will be surprised when your attacker reads your disarm, pulls the knife back, then slashes at your arm.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hello again! I'm not sure if I should make a new thread, but here goes:

                          In a month, I will be having my first kickboxing fight! How do you think I should prepare?
                          What I am doing now: As mentioned before, I have kickboxing 2 hours twice a week. The other days (except Saturdays), I have now begun running 5 km in 25 min, and then do 50 hindu squats, 20 hindu push-ups, the bridge for as long as I can hold it, 20 v-ups and 5 pull-ups. I hope to make it more reps soon (100, 30, 30, 10). That might not seem as much, but I'm not in such a great shape yet.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Off topic, but if your in Copenhagen, make sure to hang out at the Hong Kong bar. Oh, and avoid the strip club upstairs.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by karma2343 View Post
                              Hello FranzZdyb, welcome to Bullshido. A few things:
                              1. When it comes to Krav Maga, it is indeed one of the most effective martial arts in the world... if you specifically learn from an Israeli special ops person trained in it. An overwhelming majority of Krav Maga outside of Israel, however, is much less effectively for much of the reasons people in this thread have already provided. It is definitely an art to be cautious of.

                              2. While Krav Maga is an art to be wary of, JKD is something you want to avoid altogether unless you find someone certified under someone like Dan Inosanto or Terry Gibson (or both, as my Sifu is). Most people not certified under them usually learn Wing Chun and a couple other arts then market themselves as JKD. A good test of JKD is to see how eclectic it is and how much the teacher has molded it to their own personal use; if they just use Wing Chun with a bit of a boxing influence and a couple basic standing locks, Bullshido. If they actually fight using an efficient style with moves from many arts (which is what Bruce Lee intended, since the basic idea of JKD is to take what works from each art), then they might be okay.

                              3. Aliveness is what you need if you want to effectively learn anything. I know its been said, but it can't be stressed enough. If you're not taught to resist in drills then in real life you'll be unprepared for any type of fight. If you want to learn how to fight in real life here are a few arts and their strengths:
                              - BJJ: One of the most effective ways of to restrain someone, this is group fighting at its finest.
                              - Judo: Like BJJ, but less ground work and more throwing.
                              - Muay Thai: While BJJ is very effective in keeping someone on the group, Muay Thai is one of the best things you can learn for your standing offense.
                              - Boxing: An excellent thing to cross train with Muay Thai, which gives you the foot work and punches some Muay Thai places don't teach to their students.
                              - Silat: Good to use to make sure your opponent won't get back up, but this art is hard to find and can't be used in most competitions.
                              Define "someone like Dan Inosanto or Terry Gibson". Is Paul Vunak on your "OK" list? Joe Maffei?, Kelly Worden? How about Guy Chase who trained Mark DellaGrotte? Does Richard Bustillo pass your smell test, or are you just picking on people like Ted Wong?

                              WTF? Who the hell are you to tell a n00b that the only good JKD instructors are those that trained with your Sifu?

                              Franz: if you do train JKD you will either be at a concepts school, or a traditional school. The main befefit of the first type is that you will be probably exposed to several of: boxing, muay Thai, BJJ, stick fighting (possibly including the Dog Brothers system), shootfighting, Savate, etc. All good stuff. You will also likely learn 'Jun Fan Kickboxing' (bear with me).

                              If you find a school of the traditional sort you will probably learn just Jun Fan Kickboxing. You will learn how to box some (but backwards lead), you will learn some decent CMA kicks including a mean but telegraphed side-kick. Be prepared to get your front leg killed by Thaiboxers.

                              The bad news for both schools of thought is that you will spend a ton of time working on Wing Chun and Kali trapping techniques that will never work outside your school.

                              Word to the wise: Don't listen to anyone's opinions about other people teaching JKD. Its all politics and BS. If you have legit questions about someone's credentials, raise it here, and let the Bullies help you look into it.

                              Happy hunting.
                              Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                              KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                              In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                              Luta Livre flees the fight,
                              Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                              Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

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