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What is with the Judo nuthuggery on this site?

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    Originally posted by PeopleSoft
    Ming, What's your opinion on the suitability of SanDa grappling to MMA?
    Do you think the bad post-throw positioning aspect is a big deal, or a minor problem?
    we seem to have gone full-drift into a derail (apologies, and feel free to break off this side conversation if needed.)

    i think that if sanda is trained properly (that's a big if) it can work very well for MMA (obviously with a ground grappling art added to it.)

    i think a lot of the post-throw positioning comes from a desire to not only pull off the throw, but to also look good doing it (i'm not joking about this, i have heard people teach this idea.) i think that may be reinforced by the judges in lei tai and sanda who tend to award more points for flashy throws (crowd pleasers.)

    in my experience a little bit of ground fighting cures those bad habits quickly. really it boils down to training them to hold on and follow the person to the ground, rather than let go and remain standing. a bit of MMA sparring with someone with a good ground game makes that necessity quite clear.

    Comment


      I have know problem with people not following their man to the mat, as they may likely be using a sprawl-and-brawl strategy against a superior ground fighter. My problem is with sacrifice throws. I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.

      In an attempt to get this thread back in the original direction, as a coach, what would you think about allowing your fighters to fight for a pin (ala Judo) after a throw as a way of ingraining position? I suspect this would go a long way.
      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
      Luta Livre flees the fight,
      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

      Comment


        Originally posted by PeopleSoft
        I have know problem with people not following their man to the mat, as they may likely be using a sprawl-and-brawl strategy against a superior ground fighter. My problem is with sacrifice throws. I'm sure you know exactly what I mean.
        hmm, i actually don't know of any sacrifice throws in sanda, as most of them would leave you in danger of not getting any points for the throw (if you both fall down, unless one person is clearly in control and lands solidly on top, often no points are awarded.)

        In an attempt to get this thread back in the original direction, as a coach, what would you think about allowing your fighters to fight for a pin (ala Judo) after a throw as a way of ingraining position? I suspect this would go a long way.
        i think that it would be a good way to get them ready for MMA and would be a good part of any self defense program. i would discourage that sort of training for a couple of months before fighting sanda for the above reasons.

        ON TOPIC: i am a huge judo nutrider, and when my wife and i have a kid, that kid will train in JUDO for many reasons:

        1) the kid will be half-japanese and i want him/her to have as many connections to japan as possible
        2) good self defense for kids (no-aggressive in the eyes of the school)
        3) regular tournaments to get them used to competing and to leave them with no false confidence.

        yes i teach kung fu, and will eventually teach the kid that as well, but judo will make an excellent base.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Ming Loyalist
          hmm, i actually don't know of any sacrifice throws in sanda, as most of them would leave you in danger of not getting any points for the throw (if you both fall down, unless one person is clearly in control and lands solidly on top, often no points are awarded.)
          I was thinking especially of the famous scissor-leg and how screams "grab my foot and submit me, please"

          And stuff like 0:55
          YouTube - Cung Le vs Na Shun

          I hear ya on Judo for kids, but I feel they are better served by Folkstyle when they are school-aged. You can't really count on finding wrestling instruction as an adult, whereas Judo is going to be 'available'. I'm sure your kid will be more than prepared for the school yard ;)
          Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


          KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

          In De Janerio, in blackest night,
          Luta Livre flees the fight,
          Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
          Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

          Comment


            What is with the judo hatery on PeopleSoft's balls? I mean, this is getting ridiculous. He's clinging to excuse not to espouse judo.

            Comment


              Originally posted by 1point2
              What is with the judo hatery on PeopleSoft's balls? I mean, this is getting ridiculous. He's clinging to excuse not to espouse judo.
              It reeks of the guy who, while everyone is discussing a popular TV show, feels the need to chime in with the fact that he doesn't even own a TV.

              He'll keep it up until he's convinced himself of how cool he is for going against popular opinion.

              Comment


                Originally posted by PeopleSoft
                I was thinking especially of the famous scissor-leg and how screams "grab my foot and submit me, please"

                And stuff like 0:55
                ohhh yeah. i forgot about those because i don't teach them (well we do a version of the suplex but from the back, and instead of throwing them high, you just pick them off the ground and drop them.)

                the scissor takedown has led to at least one sub by heel hook in pro-MMA (chonan vs. silva) so i think it should be considered legit for MMA, although i think it's a very difficult move and hard to pull off.

                Comment


                  The scissors is a legit takedown provided that the *thrower* immediately moves into leg control and attacks with a leglock of some kind, as chonan did. You *can* get a dominant position out of it but it's a heluva lot harder than attacking the legs and trying to move to a pin might expose your own legs to attack.

                  Properly used scissor takedown:
                  YouTube - How to Do Sambo Martial Arts : Doing a Scissor Take Down in Sambo Martial Arts
                  courtesy of SamboSteve.

                  Comment


                    The Russians have a Sanda-derivative they swiped: "Dragka", or something like that. It was my coach who told me that the Soviets became very interested in Red Chinese H2H after analyzing after-action reports from border skirmishes along the Ussuri River. The -typically-poorly trained/equipped Soviets got their asses kicked.

                    One principle they gleaned and developed: when hit, grab& when grabbed, hit

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by ChickenBeakFist
                      He'll keep it up until he's convinced himself of how cool he is for going against popular opinion.
                      You got me. I disagree with conventional wisdom, even if its correct. I object to the idea because I'm a professional stick in the mud.
                      Last edited by Matt Phillips; 2/06/2009 6:46pm, .
                      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                      Luta Livre flees the fight,
                      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by PeopleSoft
                        I'm a professional stick in the mud.
                        That's a stellar euphemism for gay porn actor.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by theotherserge
                          The Russians have a Sanda-derivative they swiped: "Dragka", or something like that. It was my coach who told me that the Soviets became very interested in Red Chinese H2H after analyzing after-action reports from border skirmishes along the Ussuri River. The -typically-poorly trained/equipped Soviets got their asses kicked.

                          One principle they gleaned and developed: when hit, grab& when grabbed, hit
                          You mean Kulachni Boy ?
                          that translates as "fist fight" and was practiced from the old Rus times
                          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fistfight

                          You also got to wear awesome coats and santa hats


                          I have never heard of "Dragka" or "Draka" martial art, Draka just means fight.

                          Comment


                            I have never heard of "Dragka" or "Draka" martial art, Draka just means fight.
                            Well he did say a derivative of sanshou (free hand). Sanshou is a rule-set that has morphed into a style.
                            http://www.drakasport.com/history.php
                            Last edited by It is Fake; 2/06/2009 5:35pm, .

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by It is Fake
                              Well he did say a derivative of sanshou (free hand). Sanshou is a rule-set that has morphed into a style.
                              http://www.drakasport.com/history.php
                              Draka was basically 12 round SanDa. Maurice Smith, Cung and Omega were involved.
                              Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                              KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                              In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                              Luta Livre flees the fight,
                              Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                              Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by TheRuss
                                That's a stellar euphemism for gay porn actor.
                                What a load of Baroni!
                                Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                                KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                                In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                                Luta Livre flees the fight,
                                Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                                Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                                Comment

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