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    Bujinkan lol

    ok so i have been into bujinkan training for a while, around 4 years
    i tried many arts, and spent time in kendo and tkd
    but what gets to me about Bujinkan training is the fat old guys who dominant the way its taught.

    i have visited many dojos in my country and too many times have i found people moving too slow and being too gentle in training.

    i understand it is necessary to be careful to prevent harm but
    on the other hand it must be taught in a way in whitch its useful in a real combat situation (as in u dont need to thread needles for it to work)

    on the other hand the fringe dojos who are trying to avoid negative stigmas accociated with the bujinkan want to rush everything and 'make it up' so theres no real accumulation of skill, just the same old twitch responses

    there doesnt seem to me to be any natural progression from being gentle to learn the movement and technique to being rough to be able to execute it in an uncontroled situation :viking:

    its either rough from start, or, gentle then uber precise, random, ridiculous, unrealistic gentle pwnage where the fat old guy barely moves and the uke just stands there with his arm out.

    can anybody see where im coming from?
    i would like to hear opinions on the matter, and any advide is welcome

    p.s thinking practicing another martial art on the side to fill in the gaps. suggestions?

    #2
    drop out of the buj, decide if you're more interested/comfortable with stand up or grappling, then go from there.

    oh, and beware bringing up the buj around here. people aren't as nice as me when it comes to ninjers.

    Comment


      #3
      Hello Ceosan. Does your Bujnkan Budo Taijutsu class do any free sparring at all?

      Reason I ask is that I just spent several days over the Xmas/New Year period cross-training with a friend of mine who also does the Bujinkan. He tells me his dojo here in Japan is one of the few who actually do practice free-sparring (though with limited contact). His NZ dojo didn't do sparring at all.

      His sparring experience in his current dojo provided him with some solid basics in terms of timing and movement, and the sparring we did at various levels of intensity was very useful in helping him work out what he needed to work on to make his techniques more effective against an experienced striker.

      The bottom line is that it definitely is possible to train Bujinkan techniques with a gradual progression from compliant drills to full free-sparring with realistic contact and resistance. But I think you're right in that this is not how it is traditionally or commonly taught.

      So if you're not getting any free-sparring practice at the moment then you might want to ask your instructors to see if they would be willing to include it in your training. And if they aren't willing to do so, then definitely look into at least supplementing your training with somewhere where you can get some serious sparring practice.

      My old Yoshukai Karate school has a dojo in the Wellington area. I'm not sure how many people are training there these days as the main dojo is in Palmerston North, but I could give you a link with email addresses if you want to check them out.
      Last edited by Tetsujin; 1/10/2009 5:34am, .

      Comment


        #4
        Wow, the unprecedented to YMAS level of restraint on this thread so far have brought me out of lurking.

        To the OP, dude, why not switch to a different, more practical MA? Not going into all the dead horse beating of whether the bujinkan works or not, you are infinitely more likely to get realistic and applicable training somewhere else, whether it's FMA, MMA; BJJ or the Thui Bocksing etc etc, just because people have a different and [more better] approach to combat.

        Comment


          #5
          NO SPARRING,DONT WORK...IF YOU NEVER KNOW HOW TO TAKE A GOOD SHOT...YOU WILL END FORGETTING ALL YOUR NINJA STUFF IN A FIGHT...YOUR FEAR WILL TAKE YOU OUT...

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Ceosan
            i have visited many dojos in my country and too many times have i found people moving too slow and being too gentle in training.
            What country do you live in?

            i understand it is necessary to be careful to prevent harm but
            on the other hand it must be taught in a way in whitch its useful in a real combat situation (as in u dont need to thread needles for it to work)
            Whoa...i never thought about it like that...
            interesting...


            there doesnt seem to me to be any natural progression from being gentle to learn the movement and technique to being rough to be able to execute it in an uncontroled situation
            it can be done, think sparring on 50% or 80% strength.

            its either rough from start, or, gentle then uber precise, random, ridiculous, unrealistic gentle pwnage where the fat old guy barely moves and the uke just stands there with his arm out.
            Don't make assumptions just because you are ignorant.

            can anybody see where im coming from?
            Yes, yes i can.

            p.s thinking practicing another martial art on the side to fill in the gaps. suggestions?
            You should definately try out capoeira.
            You'll get great abs and there are secret applications hidden in the moves.
            This may sounds strange but if you stick with it for 5 years you'll understand what im talking about.

            Comment


              #7
              So basically what you are saying is that you know that the martial art your train in is crap. You know that your instructors are crappy. And the other Dojos that you have been to are crap.

              Then you weight the pros and cons of continuing to roll around in the crap. Because maybe there is a diamond at the bottom of the pile of crap.

              Dude, go train MMA, Muay Thai, BJJ, or Yoshukai(like the other guy said).

              You already know these answers. Now go do it.
              Combatives training log.

              Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

              Drum thread

              Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

              "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

              Comment


                #8
                Shooto, sambo, judo...
                Originally posted by MrBadGuy
                The Dog kid's mom is parked next to me in the parking lot. He runs up and asks me a question. "Hey dude, where did you learn that stuff?"

                "That was grappling. Real MMA."

                "Where do I go for that?"

                I was a little shocked. Sure, he changed sides quickly, but I guess even a dog can realize it has more in common with the wolf than with the shephard.

                I give him the names of some BJJ schools in the area, and we go our separate ways.

                Comment


                  #9
                  You're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. Now that you realise the need for sparring why would you continue with the buj where sparring is actively discouraged? Go take something where they encourage you to do the right thing instead of trying to do it on the sly. What is it about the booj that gives it this strange hold over you?



                  Former bujer

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Personally, I think you should just follow Lebells advice.

                    At the moment he's the most experienced MA'ist on this thread, and it's good advice...!
                    "So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the shit out of you.
                    And when the shit's been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand

                    "So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw

                    "On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper

                    "You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07

                    "Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander

                    "Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      My own experience with the Booj was just like yours. I gave it up after only 3 months and I'm glad I did.

                      Judo is a natural next step, since it's mostly standup grappling and throws. Why not find a club and try a free class.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I was in the Buj for a month, and then left. I felt as though there MIGHT be something good in it, but I was just too disappointed in it.

                        I thought then Genbukan might be even worse, because all I knew is that it was some off shoot. Oh how wrong I was. I'm so thankful I joined the Genbukan, where it's like Judo practice all the time, rough, serious training, and no "We are ninja and assassinate" talk.

                        I'd seriously recommend checking out the Genbukan if you can muster the strength. Coming from a Kyokushinkai background, I was skeptical about anything Ninpo, but I was wrong. Try the Genbukan, I can only promise a far superior experience!

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Onisan, plz gtfo.

                          genbukan is JJJ at best.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            i agree with the above posters. you could just go do some judo. it might be as fun as it is usefull....

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Hey Lebell... Lay off the capoeira. We train with contact and the movements aren't hidden. A martelo is exactly the same as a thai kick. =P Remember not all of us train to show off for skirts and tourists.

                              And as for the booj. We have a booj guy coming to the grappling classes at my gym that is pretty chill. He has some good ideas and has definitely done a decent amount of sparring. We just have to break those bad crappling habits and get him to put more into his kicks.

                              That being said. He will be the first to tell you that 99% of the booj schools are craptaculous, train unrealisticly and give belts inexchange for cheeseburgers.
                              Last edited by heelhook; 1/10/2009 1:28pm, .

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