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Pressure Point Control Tactics (PPCT)

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    #76
    When I went through, the instructor was a black belt in JJJ and regularly competed in no holds bared competitions. Back before it was regularly called MMA. Matter of fact he was the first person to ever put me in an arm bar. Well, he had voluntary classes on the weekends that was "off the books". That was where we learned real martial arts. And the only ones who showed up to those classes were the people who are more likely to use it.

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      #77
      Diesel, look up Gene Lebell's grappling club book...

      It is a FANTASTIC book, tailored specifically for law enforcement.

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        #78
        Originally posted by 3moose1 View Post
        I see what you mean.

        Real life: dude swings, you slip the punch, clinch, slam, mount, choke lightly until they stop resisting

        Report: man swung, and i restrained him with a standing armbar. He hit his head while resisting my attempts to put him peacefully in the car, and ended up headbutting the door frame?
        pushups moose,
        besides, that sounds just like my last date with mrs. white kimbo.

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          #79
          Amazon.com: Gene LeBell, The Grappling Club Master: Gene LeBell, Lynn Salvatori, Ben Springer, Steve K. Lebell, Gene LeBell Lynn Salvatori: Books

          I'll have to put this on my list of books to get!

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            #80
            Any cop who relies on seminar type training to defend themselves deserves what happens to them. It is just not practical to have cops training in DT hours a week on the clock. It would be nice if departments would pay for cops to train on their own but the money isn't there and neither is the willingness of government.

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              #81
              Originally posted by JRT6 View Post
              Any cop who relies on seminar type training to defend themselves deserves what happens to them. It is just not practical to have cops training in DT hours a week on the clock. It would be nice if departments would pay for cops to train on their own but the money isn't there and neither is the willingness of government.
              So true. Darrell Max Craig talks about this in his Jujutsu Before 1882 book. He's a Texas LEO who laments the American non-MA LEO mentality, in contrast with what he describes as the Japanese model, where LEOs are more commonly college grads with MA background and MA current study.

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                #82
                Yeah, and I hate to tell you but the way the economy is right now with budget cuts all around, they are not going to be increasing LEO training any time soon. So you have to use what you have.

                A lot of people are employed in areas where there are no martial art schools. Especially correctional officer's who work at prisons that are placed in secluded areas so that people can pretend they don't exist. Those COs have to relay on the training they get in the academy.

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                  #83
                  PPCT is only one of many Law Enforcement DT systems. I dont want to sound biased but I will admit to being an instructor in the system. My opinion is that is a basic system of self defense that has the ability to be tweaked by the agency using it to steer it more toward what they want it to be (good or bad). How you train it is how it will be used. So if you try and instill too much emphasis on the pressure point side of it or stuns and not enough on the striking and blocks and you work in a rough - tough environment that is bad.

                  I think that overall it is as good as any other LEO system (for what LEO are able to receive from an academy). It has a couple of things going for it: It teaches that hitting just once probably wont work so have a plan (or 3). As I was taught it, I was told to build/develop combos. Adapting to the situation was also a strong point and went along with understanding stress on a situation.

                  Some of the things I do not like include: the handcuffing is way too complicated and over done, FBI has it better. The lack of any type of ground fighting (they sell another system just for this, ...lame). The joint locks and take-downs are weak (the arm-bar excepted). Finally the lack of footwork and break-falls is a big let down.

                  Every person I have spoken with has said that the pressure point stuff is what gets people in trouble; officers try and pull this stuff off long after it is time to knock someones block off, not poke them in the jugular notch....

                  This is all IMHO and I get to teach it to my agency. I know it could be better but what couldn't?
                  Last edited by hudson69; 3/04/2011 4:17pm, .

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                    #84
                    Two year old post I know....but, I had to chime in. I'm a life long wrestler, and MMA fighter of the last eleven years, with fifteen years experience in karate, kendo, and jiu jitsu holding a third degree black belt in karate. That said, I worked at a juvenile detention center for nine years, and yes you ARE allowed to strike in extreme settings, do not forget that juveniles can serve time for murder as well!!!! PPCT is common place in detention centers, and is very effective when used appropriately. I've used it many times since it is the only sanctioned restraint technique system in the State run facility I work in. It is a simple system to use, but It is a very established prison restraint technique. If you are proficient in the techniques it works great, but it does require the discipline to not use a lot of the MA training i've learned over the years. If you doubt its effectiveness, get GOOD at it and you no longer will. It is like so many fighting styles, use it well, use your specific strengths within that system and take advantage of and create openings when presented to you.

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                      #85
                      Originally posted by dbot View Post
                      I'm a life long wrestler, and MMA fighter of the last eleven years, with fifteen years experience in karate, kendo, and jiu jitsu holding a third degree black belt in karate.
                      If you claim something on this website, you are expected to be able to prove it. I'd like to see proof of MMA record please.

                      Before you protest that this is unfair, keep in mind that everyone with tags on this site has provided proof to the staff that they earned it. This includes me, a moderator here.


                      Originally posted by dbot's post as interpreted by me
                      Blah, blah, blah I occasionally need to strong arm deadly children and teens. I can't use my leet MA skills because I would devastate them. So's instead I pokes 'em in the neck, or pull their little ears.
                      I would have gone with the following,

                      "Them kids are all twisty and flexible and hard to control, especially the deadly ones. Despite this and due to my massive restraint, I only kill occasionally using one finger."

                      Oh wait, you claimed employment as a corrections officer, yes? Proof of Law Enforcement employment please.

                      If you can not provide proof of these statements, you will be banned.

                      How much time do you need to get your credentials together? I'm a reasonable person.
                      Shut the hell up and train.

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                        #86
                        hahaha this is exactly why everybody hates JNP.
                        we love you man.

                        wait..what?

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                          #87
                          Since originally posting this thread, I have seen and participated (by this, I mean I had to break up the fight/attack) 30-40 fights. Some of the techniques worked fairly well some of the time. I've used palm heel strikes to the chest, escort position to (if they resist) knee strikes to the to the outside of the leg followed by the transport wristlock or straight armbar takedown, and pressure points behind the ear and under the nose. Palm strikes to the chest worked well to put distance between myself and an inmate but basically just pisses them off more. The transport wristlock (which is used when someone resists the escort position by curling the arm in) and the straight armbar takedown (used they resist by stiffarming) are difficult to pull off when someone actually is resisting. The pressure points sometime work but are also difficult to apply when someone is resisting. The detention center recently dropped PPCT in favor of some crap that sucks even worse called "Handle With Care". Basically everything ends with the Primary Restraint Technique, which is basically just holding their arms behind their back. If they resist,you take a big step backand sit them down and the roll them over to their stomach. Again, the techniques are trained compliantly and difficult to apply with resistance. When we were first trained, we were told how awesome the PRT was and were told to test it but only after the technique was fully applied and you were facedown on the floor. We also learn some craptastic self defense techiniques. This includes the X-block against kicks. I have a hard time keeping a straight face during the classes. The one time I was punched in the face, I grabbed the inmate by the neck and arme and applied an outer reaping throw and somehow landed in the mount. To sum up, PPCT sucks, Handle With Care sucks more, Judo ftw. I'll post a threads soon on the fights I've observed.

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                            #88
                            standing restraints are easy to apply provided you follow the simple rule of having more people doing the restraining than needing to be restrained.

                            Otherwise you will struggle.

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                              #89
                              What ive never understood about prisons is this: the inmates are a bunch of assholes to begin with.
                              They broke the law and loads of em have hurted people.
                              If this isnt enough they get violent during their stay in prison, so why not just tase the fuck out of the scum anyway?
                              Why try to be all cuddely and carefull with these assholes?

                              ' oops was that my batton on your front teeth? sorry bro.'
                              ' wait what? whatcha gonna do to my family? these stairs are slippery you could just fall 4 stories down...mmkay?'

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by Lebell View Post
                                so why not just tase the fuck out of the scum anyway?
                                Why try to be all cuddely and carefull with these assholes?

                                ' oops was that my batton on your front teeth? sorry bro.'
                                ' wait what? whatcha gonna do to my family? these stairs are slippery you could just fall 4 stories down...mmkay?'
                                Most correctional officers would not want to carry tasers, batons, or any other types of weapons in a prison. There are times when you are ridiculously outnumbered. Many times I have been walking around the rec yard when there was 4 or 5 officers and about 1000 inmates. It would not been hard for them to over power you and take your weapons. We do have guards up in the towers with firearms. But they don't have enough ammo to take out a thousand inmates. So it is best to just leave all the weapons outside the fence.

                                And the treatment of inmates has to be controlled and regulated pretty closely. Otherwise stuff can get out of control on both sides of the law, pretty quickly. Refer to the Stanford Prison Experiment. It is a famous experiment that is very interesting about how imprisonment effects the inmate as well as the guard.

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