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Pressure Point Control Tactics (PPCT)

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    Pressure Point Control Tactics (PPCT)

    I just started a new job at a juvenile detention center and as part of the training, I was required to undergo 2 days of PPCT training and take a certification test. In addition to learning how to handcuff, here is what I learned:

    Escort position - You stand behind the juvenile gripping their tricep and wrist, locking out their arm.

    Transport wristlock - used when a youth resists the escort position by curling his arm inward. Similar to a Bouncer's come-along. Also before applying the technique, you're supposed to yell "STOP RESISTING" and knee them in the outside of the thigh.

    Straight armbar takedown - used from the the escort position when a youth tries to resist by locking out his arm. You yell "STOP RESISTING", knee them in the thigh, then curl their tricep over and step back and around taking them down. Basically an Aikido armbar.

    Brachial stuns - strikes to the brachial plexus on the side of the neck using palm strikes or forearm strikes. Also, eveidently using a chop to the side the neck constitutes deadly force. Seriously, it was one of the test questions.

    Pressure points - can't remember the names but they showed us the ones behind the earlobe, behind the jawbone and the one betweent he lip and nose. Interestingly, I learned all these in junior high when we used to play pain games. They never worked on me. One of the instructors wanted to mess with another one, who is a PPCT fanatic and Aikido nutrider, by letting him do them to me at full force. Let's just say he was pissed when they didn't work.

    Strikes - front palm strike to chest, rear punch to chest, outward foot stomp, and roundhous kick to outer thigh. And with all of these, you're supposed to yell "GET BACK".

    And that was it. I feel that the course was largely bullshit. The instructors knew I had previous MA experience and I was told to "forget all that shit you already know." The instructor also struck a "kungfu" stance with a Bruce Lee shriek when he said this. They also told me I can't go using "UFC stuff".

    Funny enough, we were shown a video of the only escape the facility ever had and basically, a guard was jumped by 2 youths who grabbed him and wrestled him to the ground. While they were on the ground, one youth had the guard in a sloppy choke hold (w/ no hooks) while the other kicked him in the groin and trying to grab his keys and radio. The guard just flopped around and didn't do anything but grab the guy's arm. The choke wasn't even effective. The youth held it for almost a minute and when he let go, so he and the other could run out of the door, the guard just got up. Say what you will about grappling and multiple attackers, but If he had even a few days of grappling training instead of the PPCT nonsense, the escape wouldn't have happened and he could have defended himself better. Unfortunately, if you don't use PPCT approved techniques when using force, you can be fired or sued. While I understand the need for something that minimizes damage to the aggressor while protecting the defender, I thinik there are much better options than PPCT. Also according the PPCT manual, the founder of pressure points was "Dharma" and all of the techniques are scientifically proven.

    Anybody else with PPCT experience?

    #2
    You're allowed to strike them?
    Is this place under government regulation or however its done in the states? or is it privately owned somehow?

    I would've thought they'd use established prison officer or LEO restraint techniques.
    Messed up.
    Originally posted by Judoka_UK
    Judo is the PC to Sambo's Mac.

    Comment


      #3
      We're only allowed to stike in specific ways and circumstances, such as when an inmate comes at you in a threating or aggressive manner, which rarely happens. Only as a last resort and only to establish control. The PPCT program is geared towards LEOS.

      And it is a state facility. And even though it is a juvenile facility, the youths are in there for violent offenses such as rape, murder and ared robbery.
      Last edited by madmagus777; 1/05/2009 6:39pm, .

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        #4
        i've had LEO friends that learned PPCT. Some of them were MAs before hand. what they showed me and told me about the system was that it was crap. the bits they showed me didn't work, and what they told me of their training was laughable. but, what can you expect when people have such a visceral and negative reaction to real MAs. of course they are going to go to PPCT type stuff. it's all they can do to try to control situations without litigious bastards trying to sue them every step of the way.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by madmagus777
          Also according the PPCT manual, the founder of pressure points was "Dharma" .
          Pretty sure that they are using the word Dharma totally wrong unless they actually mean this chick.




          Originally posted by madmagus777
          and all of the techniques are scientifically proven.
          Yeah because it works so well for the chun.

          Has it gotten to the point where LEO training has to undergo MABS investigations?

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Hooded Justice
            Neil Simon makes sitcoms?

            Comment


              #7
              God that show sucked.

              "I'm Quirky, TEE HEE!"

              Drink the grape juice bitch.
              Originally posted by Judoka_UK
              Judo is the PC to Sambo's Mac.

              Comment


                #8
                Gad that sounds like a bunch of shit.

                A kajukenbo instructor took an obnoxious drunk out of a party here with the 'tween nose and lip pinch and had a little talk (then went back in with him and drank some more), but he made it work because the drunk had a certain deep understanding and knowledge that if he resisted he'd of gotten his lip ripped off.
                "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez

                Comment


                  #9
                  Regardless of what you were told about having to use only PPCT, I bet you won't get in trouble if you take someone down without slamming them (oops, he grabbed me and we lost our balance) and pin them.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Um, am I the only one who thinks that if you add a standing Kimura, a day of grappling, and replace the striking, that the come-alongs and restraints aren't terrible?

                    Whatever, go on with what you were doing.

                    Edit: And are you trying to think of the mastoid process, y'know, the thing that grapplers dig into to open up the neck from behind?
                    What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Xenophon's Socrates

                    Comment


                      #11
                      PPCT is garbage., but the LEO administrators love it because they way it is "packaged."

                      There are far more practical systems out there for law enforcement. One on One control tactics is a great one.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I've done quite a bit of research on "defense and control"-type programs taught for juvy detention workers, psychiatric hospital employees etc.

                        The founder of one of the major programs (not PPCT) told me candidly that they (the training providers) recognize a 70/20/10% rule for these institutions; their training is mostly geared towards the 10% of employees who will be willing and able to step up when required, then the 20% who will reliably be able to help in an emergency once someone else has "taken charge." The remaining 70% are basically a lost cause and simply take the training because they have to.

                        The chronic problem with this type of course is actually at the institutional policy/regulation level. By and large, the institutions are terrified of being sued for abusive treatment, so they have to ban any conceivably dangerous defense/control techniques (most strikes, high-impact takedowns etc.) IMO the people that make those decisions are not generally well-qualified to judge that kind of thing at the technical level.

                        The institutions are also typically under-funded and/or just don't want to prioritize serious training; two day crash-courses are typical. The training providers generally do their best within these almost impossible conditions.

                        The sad part of all this is that so many scared kids and mentally ill people have been seriously injured or killed while being restrained by employees who simply don't know what they're doing.

                        IMO the best, most realistic and intelligent course of this type is also one of the least-known. It was designed by Bill Paul back in the '70s. Paul was a judo 5th dan, former US judo champ, biomechanics expert and one of the best MA/self defense teachers I've ever seen. Unfortunately, he died fairly young and his system didn't have a chance to become established.
                        Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                        Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DdlR

                          IMO the best, most realistic and intelligent course of this type is also one of the least-known. It was designed by Bill Paul back in the '70s. Paul was a judo 5th dan, former US judo champ, biomechanics expert and one of the best MA/self defense teachers I've ever seen. Unfortunately, he died fairly young and his system didn't have a chance to become established.
                          this sounds interesting, what was preserved before he passed away?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I know of two people qualified to teach the Bill Paul system, one of whom is working on a book about it, and I've seen an early-'80s videotape that Paul intended as a refresher for instructors in the system. It's really good stuff, IMO light-years ahead of most similar programs. It's designed for regular, on-going training, though, rather than two-day intensives, which may be part of the reason why it didn't catch on at the national level.
                            Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

                            Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by DdlR
                              It's designed for regular, on-going training, though, rather than two-day intensives
                              how do you get to carnagie hall? practice practice practice.

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