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Bagua BJJ multiple Opponents (Yes another TMA larpfest)

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    Bagua BJJ multiple Opponents (Yes another TMA larpfest)

    Originally posted by whitetaoist
    I have no problem whatsoever with Novell taking BJJ. My problem is with his BGZ grappling invention and him teaching it to people.

    The above videos show what Novell calls BaGuaZhang grappling,
    There is no such thing as BaGuaZhang grappling.
    I agree with whitetaoist. The BGZ I practice has specific principles in the art that a grappler can use, apply, and add to.

    I have always been taught that the main goal of BGZ is to defend against multiple opponents.

    How can you stick to that BGZ goal when you are busy with someone on the ground???

    #2
    Dude. Dude. Seriously dude? You've been here three years?

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by simo
      I agree with whitetaoist. The BGZ I practice has specific principles in the art that a grappler can use, apply, and add to.

      I have always been taught that the main goal of BGZ is to defend against multiple opponents.

      How can you stick to that BGZ goal when you are busy with someone on the ground???
      Seriously?

      Do we really need to go into the flaws in this?


      Also I take some credit in BT crappling intrest. We had a LOOONG talk on the phone and I repeatedly urged him to actually go an train in a grappling school before putting out those anti-grappling videos that out thrashed here. Looks like he did it. A small victory.
      ______
      Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

      RIP SOLDIER

      Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
      -Gene, GODHAND

      You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
      The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
      -Daniel Tosh

      Comment


        #4
        I said I agree with White Taoist!

        What are you all gripping about? Taking BJJ is not wrong. Using it along with your BGZ is fine with me. Adding to your BGZ is not a crime.

        BGZ is about mobility and footwork, and as far as I know, there is no such thing as BGZ groundfighting.

        Comment


          #5
          No one said anything about him adding to his Bagua. They are talking about him creating his own ground fighting, WHICH DOES NOT EXIST IN BAGUA. Stand up grappling in Bagua yes. Down on the ground submission graplling no.
          He can add all he wants. No art is equipped for multiple opponents no matter what people say. Now, are some better equipped to get you out of a situation...yes.

          If you think all BJJers, and the like, do is instantly fall on the ground ad do the butt scoot you are just as silly as the people that use it as an excuse.

          Oh and this will be moved. This thread doesn't need to be bumped. This stuff is dead and gone.

          Originally posted by simo
          I have always been taught that the main goal of BGZ is to defend against multiple opponents.
          Before you start your little tirade you took it in this direction.

          What you agree with doesn't negate this flawed comment.
          Last edited by It is Fake; 1/02/2009 9:29am, .

          Comment


            #6
            I feel it is ok for him to call it BGZ grappling, he is melding the techniques he is learning into the BGZ principles and creating something unique. Seems to me a family in Brazil learned Judo and took it for their own by melding it to fit a philosophy, albeit one governed by battle tested reality and called it a new name. Should they be renounced and forced to call their art Judo?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by emiliozapata
              I feel it is ok for him to call it BGZ grappling, he is melding the techniques he is learning into the BGZ principles and creating something unique. Seems to me a family in Brazil learned Judo and took it for their own by melding it to fit a philosophy, albeit one governed by battle tested reality and called it a new name. Should they be renounced and forced to call their art Judo?

              Shut up.

              Can somebody bin this fucking thread, please? Thank you very much.
              Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
              and remember what peace there may be in silence.
              As far as possible, without surrender,
              be on good terms with all persons.
              Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
              and listen to others,
              even to the dull and ignorant;
              they too have their story.

              -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by emiliozapata
                I feel it is ok for him to call it BGZ grappling, he is melding the techniques he is learning into the BGZ principles and creating something unique. Seems to me a family in Brazil learned Judo and took it for their own by melding it to fit a philosophy, albeit one governed by battle tested reality and called it a new name. Should they be renounced and forced to call their art Judo?
                The techniques he is learning?
                Really are you sure? Are you really really sure. Did you read the threads? He started taking BJJ AFTER, he had a long talk with one of our moderators. So, he wasn't melding things to his BGZ. He was making things up out of thin air.


                How about you learn the history of arts before talking?

                Judo has techniques just like Brazilian Jiujitsu. You didn't know that did you? Judo has throwing and down on the ground submission techniques. They took a part of Judo and completely changed the focus. Yes, they created and evolved new techniques but, the framework was ALREADY THERE.


                This frame work DOES NOT EXIST IN BAGUA.

                So, no, it isn't in the same realm as what the Gracie's did. Stop nut hugging CMA.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Gichin Funakoshi and movies like the Karate Kid are responsible for this torrent of acceptance drivel.

                  That and the politically correct movement.

                  All of this "acceptance" crap and let people do whatever makes them happy and it's okay, is just encouraging an entire society that's so afraid to call bullshit that we allowed some peckerwood from Texas to run this country nearly into the ground.

                  What he's doing is not okay. It's bullshit.

                  And the only time bullshit's okay is when you're a farmer.
                  Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
                  and remember what peace there may be in silence.
                  As far as possible, without surrender,
                  be on good terms with all persons.
                  Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
                  and listen to others,
                  even to the dull and ignorant;
                  they too have their story.

                  -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I blame the liberals.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So now liberals are being blamed for groundfighting in Bagua? I gotta read this thread!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        clearly i support this man learning so called BJJ techniques and adding them into his BGZ, what don't you understand about his freedom to call his "system" whatever he wants, anyone paying him to learn such system needs to follow buyer beware principles. Your clinging to the semantics of the martial arts is silly cause I can assure you someone long before the written word came about figured out how to twist a joint the wrong way.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          The individual techniques are not the only thing that make up a martial art.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by emiliozapata
                            clearly i support this man learning so called BJJ techniques and adding them into his BGZ, what don't you understand about his freedom to call his "system" whatever he wants, anyone paying him to learn such system needs to follow buyer beware principles. Your clinging to the semantics of the martial arts is silly cause I can assure you someone long before the written word came about figured out how to twist a joint the wrong way.
                            Uhhmmm semantics?

                            Here let me show you semantics.
                            No one said anything about him adding to his Bagua. They are talking about him creating his own ground fighting, WHICH DOES NOT EXIST IN BAGUA.
                            I repeatedly urged him to actually go an train in a grappling school before putting out those anti-grappling videos that out thrashed here.
                            Notice, adding and learning are two different things. There is your semantic argument that you are failing to understand. No one cares if you add BJJ to Bagua. The issue was making the crap up.

                            clearly i support this man learning so called BJJ techniques and adding them into his BGZ,
                            Clearly, we don't care who you support or why.

                            No BS Martial Arts

                            BT actually did what many CMAers don't, he went and checked out an MMA gym and tested his theories.

                            This other stuff doesn't need to continue in that long dead thread.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              No one said anything about him adding to his Bagua. They are talking about him creating his own ground fighting, WHICH DOES NOT EXIST IN BAGUA.


                              Yes it does exist the minute he says it does because he has just created it, if he stated it was in the system originally then he may have been deceitful, but now that he has created it BGZ grappling does in fact EXIST

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