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TMA self defense/RSBD and semi-alive situationsi

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    TMA self defense/RSBD and semi-alive situationsi

    So was talking to one of my JJJ instructors Black Belts the other day (we are both having issues with the shit he is teahing/lack of sparring/ect.) and my point was that we needed to teach only things that can be done full speed in a full contact, sparring enviroment. He responded in the usual TMA "teh d34dly", but then said something interesting. He started talking about how alot of confrontations that require some kind of force are not full out fights where no quarter need be given, how alot of stuff can actually be headed off with a light aplication of force during the escalation process.

    I didn't think too much about this until two seperate incidents happened that made me think. To back track for a second, I currently reside in columbus, the city with the second biggest gay population in the US. I also work in food service, so I work with all of them. There is one guy there who constantly threatens to get me and another guy there drunk and try to turn us gay. I joke around with him but that day he comes up and tries to grob my ass. without thinking I put him in a fairly standard "chicken wing" type wrist lock and told him that he wasn't allowed to do that, whereas i doubt verbally repremanding him would have worked.

    another situation, my gfs drunk ass friends bday party. When we try to leave, he drunkenly tries to give my gf a kiss, which she deflected to her cheek. He then tries to either kiss or wrestle me (im not really sure but he came in close with his head and put his arms on my shoulders) and i just put him in another one of those stupid "he grabbed your shirt" type wrist locks, told him he was drunk and it was time for him to go to bed, and left.

    moral of the story, self defense MAs have proven their ineffectiveness in real combat compared to sport styles with limited rule sets, whatever. We all know that. My question is this;

    is there a place for all those hapkido/iakido/jjj bullshit wristlocks and stuff in conflict avoidence/de-escalation? those were just the two examples i could think of but the more i tihnk of it the more it seems like there is a place for these type of things, just not necessarily in a full out fight

    #2
    Yes pain compliant joint locks work great on Drunk people acting like asses.

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      #3
      Well, I like things to work in full contact sparring but the idea that anything that can't be trained that way is unusable doesn't really hold up. Think about it, if we are sparring together both of us know fully the intent of the other and are prepared for the same level of escalation. We know before we enter each other's combat range that combat is going to take place. How do you train a sucker punch in that scenario (not that you need to train a sucker punch but bear with me a moment)? You can't, does that mean a sucker punch is an unrealistic technique? Some of these Aikido and JJJ style joint locks and throws will indeed work in situations where someone is putting hands on you but a full scale donnybrook is not yet in the offing. They may even be a good point to start at in the escalation of violence to help offset excessive use of force charges. The thing is that the practitioner must reallly possess an understanding of the limited window of opportunity most of these techniques have (vs something like a punch or a takedown) and weigh the cost benefit analysis of sacrificing training time to pursue them.

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        #4
        If you think your armlocks will protect you from all the homos who want to turn you gay, you're wrong!

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          #5
          Originally posted by Rivington
          If you think your armlocks will protect you from all the homos who want to turn you gay, you're wrong!
          Well as good an idea as it is, i dont think i can headbutt them all in the genitals like your avatar

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            #6
            Personally, I think that the 2 D3Adly cliche is a massive fallacy. It's patently obvious that there really are techniques that are too dangerous to apply them fully in friendly sparring or serious (civilized, including MMA) competition. I'm not talking about chi blasts and death touches, I'm talking about all the things that are outlawed by the rules of competitive MA.

            is there a place for all those hapkido/iakido/jjj bullshit wristlocks and stuff in conflict avoidence/de-escalation? those were just the two examples i could think of but the more i tihnk of it the more it seems like there is a place for these type of things, just not necessarily in a full out fight
            Yes, as long as the control holds you're talking about are trained as realistically as possible within the bounds of safe training. I prefer balance captures and non-injuring takedowns for this sort of situation, though.
            Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

            Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

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              #7
              The obvious way to train sucker punches is to randomly attack your fellow trainees on and off the mats and see how they do.


              ...what? None of you do this? Pussies.

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                #8
                I have definitely used pain compliant type of defenses exactly as you said, during an escalation phase. I'm a personal fan or the wrist / elbow / shoulder control. If properly done, you're basically in control until the person decides to agree to stop being a dick.

                And hey, do you have any non-gay attacker stories?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Beorn
                  Well as good an idea as it is, i dont think i can headbutt them all in the genitals like your avatar
                  Have you even given it a chance?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Cool. Careful, though...two of these "homos" are my dad's friends. Both are also boxers.

                    teh d3adly homos ftw.

                    Also, must be interesting to get into an argument with your significant other and then take it to the ring. Cool.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Pain Compliant holds are good for situations regarding people who are tipsy, drunk, or are unaware on how to reverse or defend against such holds.
                      However, obviously, against those who know how to defend themselves or are willing to fight tooth and nail, those compliant holds won't do any good.

                      It all matters on the situation and attacker.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        There's no such thing as a "pain compliant hold".

                        There's just a wrist & you're too much of a pussy to break it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DerAuslander108
                          There's no such thing as a "pain compliant hold".

                          There's just a wrist & you're too much of a pussy to break it.
                          Sadly this is quite an accurate description of myself. Someone would have to do something fairly bad for me to break a limb of theirs.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mantis_Fist
                            And hey, do you have any non-gay attacker stories?
                            actually, I was talking to my friends about this, and he reminded me of something that i did last halloween. My JJJ club was having a party at my (ex) gfs house. I was dressed as beowulf (think loincloth, boots, and swordbelt, thats it) and very, very drunk. I was *supposedly* getting out of control during a beer pong tournament and my friend comes over and tries to calm me down. I put him in a wristlock, pin him against the table, and start yelling "who's your master?"

                            Im a happy drunk XD

                            Comment


                              #15
                              You're also a homophobe.

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