Your bi-monthly rage against womens self defense classes: IT moms and self defense

[Dsimon3387]

These kinds of things at least make women think they can fight back and thinking you can fight back is the first step towards actually doing it. I guess the thing to keep in mind is that you don't have to beat the shit out of your attacker in a sexual assault situation, you just have to be loud and more trouble then your worth.

At the same time last year at ashly's family christmas get together her little 5'3" 105lb cousin discussed martial arts with us and told us that she knew "some moves that could kill someone' because of a little weekend course they had her do for work or something.

It hurt to hear, but at the same time I think this bullshit is better then nothing.

And karate...it's better then karate.

I agree with this philosophy 100%.

I want to relay something interesting provided: THE IDEA OF THE FOLLOWING IS NOT TO COMPARE WOMEN TO DOGS!! Ok everyone? Anyhow I knew a famous dog trainer here and he told me something very interesing. In training attack dogs, to train them properly and to train them to be maximizingly (no such word but hey) aggressive, you had to always let them win. The idea was to literally condition them to not know how to lose and in so doing they got confidant and became better attackers as well. I think this idea applies to woman's self defense.

Specifically it applies at the basic level. Guys would not hurt from the same idea frankly. I wish I had a nickel for every time I told someone that before they did something substantial learn how to make a bag shake rattle and roll.

When I train women in my class I absolutely will not train them for self defense until they have done one of the programs that lets them attack someone who is armored up. Yes they can train in the art but self defense training starts with hitting things hard and women imo need to learn this skill more than men, whom for the majority of it is a natural skill.

[Dsimon3387]

Running away from a bear. You don't have to be faster than the bear, just faster than at least one other person. You don't have to be able to beat the mugger, just make it easier for him to find another victim. If the guy is going to get physical, then he probably was already and nothing casual is going to stop him. I don't see alot of scenarios where it makes things worse.

Unless you know Sirc.

good points. Yes the predator does not evaluate as a contest of skill... If he thinks he will encounter a problem he will go to the next victim. Its pretty blackand white... provided other things are considered like not pissing the predator off and makingf it personal with a weapon or an action that escalates the attack.

[MrGalt]

These women don't commit weight to their techniques and except for a couple of exceptions I didn't see any of them throw anything that might do damage. The palm strikes were especially groan-worthy. I have no big problem with palm strikes themselves, but why is it that proper body mechanics get thrown out along with the fist?

Incidentally, if they always practice palming hand pads and elbowing giant helmets, will they learn to high-five their rapists and elbow them in the head? I'd think practicing hitting the wrong target all the time might build bad habits, but I am a recovering krottyka, so maybe I am incorrect.

I couldn't resist commenting on the video after some dumbass droned about how the women can totally beat up a man if they have the proper attitude and commit to the techniques. Leaving aside the fact that they weren't practicing proper attitude or commitment, why couldn't their 200 pound rapist or mugger have the proper attitude and commitment too?

[recourse]

Really, isn't rape kinda like being force fed chocolate cake?



/going to hell

[DarkXacreD]

You mean the alternating heymakers?

Actually I meant Karate Kid 3:

YouTube - Karate Kid 3 end

[Frank White]

Most boys grow up learning how to fight, how to wrestle, making a fist, and being hurt. Most girls are taught growing up that fighting isn't lady-like. When they are in a situation were they can't escape, they simply don't know what to do. Hell, some are even taught to be submissive in this situation.

A self defense class should cover the basics, it's not going to be a substitute for constant training, or knowing how to use a weapon. It's not going to instill an agressive mentality, but it can give a person tools they might not have had before.

Myself, I'm a big fan of pepper spray. You can use it to get away, and in case it's taken and used against you, it's not lethal. Some women can't bring themselves to critically injure a person, even when being attacked, and pepper spray is a better option.

But if you can't get away, or use a weapon, there is nothing wrong with taking a class and learning some basic moves.

[Lily]

Really, isn't rape kinda like being force fed chocolate cake?

/going to hell

Is that what your dad told you?

/going to heaven

[MaxThunderstone]

I don't have a problem with this video. Women's self defense just isn't supposed to be real martial arts. Thats not what the studio is selling and its not what the women are buying. I'd say that this is geared towards the stark reality that if it really comes down to fisticuffs, that the woman is more than likely fucked. In a situation like that, self confidence, a basic fight or flight routine and half decent physical conditioning are gonna be more useful than a serious offensive fight plan.

[illegalusername]

I don't have a problem with this video. Women's self defense just isn't supposed to be real martial arts. Thats not what the studio is selling and its not what the women are buying. I'd say that this is geared towards the stark reality that if it really comes down to fisticuffs, that the woman is more than likely fucked. In a situation like that, self confidence, a basic fight or flight routine and half decent physical conditioning are gonna be more useful than a serious offensive fight plan.

Rapist spotted.

srsly though, even if women are at a disadvantage, there's really no reason to teach anyone bullshit. Why aren't we seeing women taught how to triangle choke from guard or something?

[Mackan]

I don't know exactly how this works - but is there any stats on how attacks against women are carried out (like "X% of all attacks are originated from behind and Y% ends on the ground"? And if so, are such facts applied to these types of courses?

I mean, if what you really need is dirty groundfighting, why train standing "Indonesian Kung Fu" or whatever? (Not saying that it is, only that stats might help you find out what you really need).

[MaxThunderstone]

You don't teach them bullshit. You teach them a minimalist curriculum with just enough detail to point them in the right direction and swear up and down to them that they're doing excellent and totally deserve a new belt and/or a certificate all of three weeks into the game. Do you really want some 120lb soccer mom trying to fumble around with a triangle while some dude is pounding her head in? If they're willing to put in the time and dedication to learn a proper art then they'll find their way into a proper martial arts class sooner or later. In the mean time, they need to get the crash course so that they get more for their 1/3 cancellation fee than a few shrimp drills and upas.

[Mackan]

My point is: Why teach anyone "defense" against hypothetical, low probabilty stuff, but leave out any and all vital information concerning probable tactics and scenarios?

What am I not getting here? Cynicism, again?

Sure - groin hits and eye gauges are great (they are!) to have in your arsenal, but for Bruce's sake, if you are jumped from behind and dragged onto the ground by a violent rapist, what are you going to do? Try to get up, show a guard stance and tell them to leave? Good luck with that.

[Rubberduck]

I agree with this philosophy 100%.

I want to relay something interesting provided: THE IDEA OF THE FOLLOWING IS NOT TO COMPARE WOMEN TO DOGS!! Ok everyone? Anyhow I knew a famous dog trainer here and he told me something very interesing. In training attack dogs, to train them properly and to train them to be maximizingly (no such word but hey) aggressive, you had to always let them win. The idea was to literally condition them to not know how to lose and in so doing they got confidant and became better attackers as well. I think this idea applies to woman's self defense.

Specifically it applies at the basic level. Guys would not hurt from the same idea frankly. I wish I had a nickel for every time I told someone that before they did something substantial learn how to make a bag shake rattle and roll.

When I train women in my class I absolutely will not train them for self defense until they have done one of the programs that lets them attack someone who is armored up. Yes they can train in the art but self defense training starts with hitting things hard and women imo need to learn this skill more than men, whom for the majority of it is a natural skill.

So in theory this training method would turn little poodle into vicious killer, right? Meaning, what kind of dogs did he train.

[DdlR]

These women don't commit weight to their techniques and except for a couple of exceptions I didn't see any of them throw anything that might do damage. The palm strikes were especially groan-worthy. I have no big problem with palm strikes themselves, but why is it that proper body mechanics get thrown out along with the fist?

Lack of time, unfortunately, in many cases. We had a similar discussion here a while back. The basic problem is that it takes real courage for a lot of women to even commit to attending a 24-hour self defense course; ongoing training, the kind that involves real physical and psychological conditioning, is often not even on the agenda.

On that basis, instructors (esp. those from TMA backgrounds) tend to fall back on "confidence boosting" and a selection of reasonably high-percentage techniques, partly in hopes that students will be motivated to take up ongoing training afterwards.

Obviously, a good instructor will coach students in the combat body mechanics that back up the techniques, but in 12-24 hours there's only so much that can be done for people who have no prior athletic/fighting background, who do not even think of themselves as "fighters" and for whom showing up at class in the first place may have taken a serious act of will.

Now, in this particular video, it may be that we're watching an early stage of their process and that the realism, resistance and force ramps up across the board as the course progresses. It *is* possible to offer previously untrained students a decent fighting chance in these short-term courses, given the right instructor, program and training methods.

[MaxThunderstone]

My point is: Why teach anyone "defense" against hypothetical, low probabilty stuff, but leave out any and all vital information concerning probable tactics and scenarios?

Who said that? You're talking about the rapist in the bushes scenario, she's gonna lose. Fight is probably already done with. Thats why you teach them to poke people in the eye and start yelling fire.