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How you train is how you fight.

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    How you train is how you fight.

    This is something you hear a lot in MMA training. Whether its about keeping your hands up even though the bag isn't going to punch back at you, or about getting the tap during live wrestling (as opposed to getting to the submission but not applying it, like getting your arm around there neck but not actually choking them).
    Well my friend managed to actually use this concept as an argument AGAINST MMA training the other day. He claimed that in a self defense situation MMAers don't do well because they don't train to hit vital targets, and even worse, they train to specifically avoid hitting the back of the head, neck etc..
    Now this arguement might hold some weight if the statement "how you train, is how you fight" was a postulate, but now I'm starting to think it might not exactly be true.
    I know if I was thrown into a self defense situation I would be kicking and kneeing people in the groin then dropping an elbow right into the middle of their spine, I don't care if they're paralyzed for the rest of their lives. I may not train to do those techniques specifically, but I am trained to use my knees and elbows very efficiently in combat against live, trained, and fully resisting opponents.
    So maybe how you train isn't exactly how you would fight? thoughts?

    #2
    Last time I checked whilst we know we can kick a groin, throat, kneecap in Kyokushin, we don't strike that location in our sparring because we don't want our classmates to not have kids, be able to walk or can't breathe.

    Not to mention if we all punched to the face with bare knuckle we'd all get cut up quite regularly.

    It's an argument that isn't new and has been discussed on this forum time and time again, and I'm still a new member.

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      #3
      I think there is a small amount of truth in what your friend says (very small). MMA rule restrictions could limit a competitive fighter in a street fight. However, that is only one part of a much larger picture. If I can't stand up to a high percentage, ring legal move and get knocked out, the lack of "deadly" techniques will not matter.

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        #4
        The same argument with combat sports vs self defense, or sparring vs "no holds barred fighting".


        The big problem with both arguments is that it assumes sparring/combat sports by their nature of trying to prevent severe injury means that the same mindset (via "you train how you fight) will establish dominance over willpower and the mind during a bigger and more importantly violent confrontation.

        In other words, there's a sentiment that "rules" and "safety" become an inhibitor. However, most people attest to it differently and do not go retarded over practicing in a ruled combat situation. Its like saying a boxer is incompetent of busting some balls in the street just because that's a no no in the ring (search vids of this happening in the ring to see why).

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          #5
          The idea is not to train specific techniques, but concepts.

          Training things like awareness, focus and intention are much more important that training "elbow to spine" and "knee to groin"

          The technique doesn't matter as much as how you use it. Doesn't matter if your a RBSD guy or a sport fighter.

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            #6
            The whole "how you train is how you fight" arguement is a double-edged sword with no right answer.

            If you are too reserved when you train and only do light point sparring with lots of pads, then you will not be used to actually hitting and getting hit with power and all that jazz.

            If you go all out everytime you train and spar full contact with no strike restrictions or pads, then you will be constantly injured and have a very short-lived time in the martial arts.

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              #7
              Originally posted by NoTeefa
              they train to specifically avoid hitting the back of the head, neck etc..
              To effectively hit the back of the head you would have to approach a person from behind. That doesn't exactly sound like something you would do for self defense if you ask me.
              For the neck, you're only prevented from striking the throat, which is not exactly the most convenient target to begin with.
              It doesn't exactly take intensive training to kick/knee the groin.

              In MMA you're allowed strike pretty much all the effective targets anyway, and are trained to hit them effectively. There's also the added benefits of training good take down defense and ground positioning.

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                #8
                How do train real eyegouge?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by HappyOldGuy
                  How do train real eyegouge?
                  You water it down to a gentle eye poke worth 2 points.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by HappyOldGuy
                    How do train real eyegouge?
                    YOU

                    PLAY


                    SOCCER

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ^^^
                      isn't that rugby?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by cuatro76
                        ^^^
                        isn't that rugby?
                        Yes, but it sounded better and would do well to elevate the status of soccer to westerners.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by cuatro76
                          ^^^
                          isn't that rugby?
                          This just reinforces my belief that it would be safer to stick to a safer sport where cutting off the flow of blood to the brain and forcing joints in the wrong direction is encouraged.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Just Guess
                            To effectively hit the back of the head you would have to approach a person from behind. That doesn't exactly sound like something you would do for self defense if you ask me.
                            Welll... take, for example, a sprawl situation. Say some idiot that used to play football tries to tackle me and I sprawl on him, then I drop a couple elbows on the back of his neck or spine, so yea, I think it is applicable to a self defense situation.
                            As for the training methods, a bunch of you seem to be attacking me personally. I DO NOT SHARE MY FRIENDS OPINION ON MMA. I know if I where to get in a self defense situation that I WOULD NOT go into MMA mode. I would look for the quickest way to end the fight, whether its a right cross to the chin, or a chop to the throat, or a nut twist while grappling.
                            So I don't really agree that "how you train, is how you fight"
                            The problem is, we tend to use this same arguement to hate on Ninjers and other martial artists that don't do live resistance training. We believe since they don't practice applying their techniques against resisting partners, that they won't be able to use them in a combat situation. Essentialy that is the same thing as saying that since MMA guys don't practice groin kicks, they won't be able to perform them in a combat situation.
                            Do you see the hypocrisy here?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by NoTeefa
                              Welll... take, for example, a sprawl situation. Say some idiot that used to play football tries to tackle me and I sprawl on him, then I drop a couple elbows on the back of his neck or spine, so yea, I think it is applicable to a self defense situation.
                              This has been discussed here before, and the consensus is that it doesn't really work well. You can't put any of your weight behind the strike.

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