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Shoto-Kai vs Shotokan MABS run Off

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    Shoto-Kai vs Shotokan MABS run Off

    OK as a beginner in shoto-KAI thats done soem shoto-KAN. I can point out some differences

    1) Relaxed posture, we try to relax into out moves rather than tensing up, hence we try to throw punches from the rear leg and through the body, literally throwing the punch, aiming for penetrative rather than knocknback power. one problem with this is it looks more sloppy the same way bjj looks sloppier than xma

    2) we try to keep the center of gravity on the hips and waist, we don't lean back to hgain height on kicks, rather we flick out our kicks, fort the same reason as above

    3) BIG one here. We don't do competition. We do free spar after about 6 to 18 months depending on school/level. But there are no medals or championchips. Hopefully if an opponent is better than you he'll tell you how to improve. The faster your up to his standard, the harder it is for him to win, so he gets to trains at a higher level. And btw, Harada still free spars at least twice a week.

    4) there is an emphasis on kata as a technical guide, it has several techniques which you can use to show flow and transition. It is not kumite, as an analogy its the difference on reading a book on how to drive and going on the freeway (rubbish analogy i know) one shows you the basic and a lot of other stuff and you neee to have read the highway code but its very different to real life (kumite)

    To an outside observer our karate looks sloppy, lazy, and lacking in power. Theres no effort visible. Shotokan will get you fitter, you'll really be able to stop punching someone in the face really quickly, as we don't focus blows at skin level our contact is a little harder (it should bruise if you hit someone and my instructor did get his nose broken once.) nut on the downside it thakes you longer to get to spar, you won't be as conditioned in the first 6-12 months...but hey if you really wanna learn something with no kata and thats really effective with no gi or philosophical aspect, go and do muay thai (those guys are amazing strikers!)

    Finally in answer to the accusations, in my opinion Harada does not teach bullshido. Bust this is opinion and i am biased. The training is quite alive for a TMA, but you do have to be patient.

    Shotokan is still a wonderful competition style, and it does look absolutely spectacular (i wish i could kick that high and sound so focused) alas i am lazy. Shotokan is not for me. I love studying shotokai and i find that i am slowly getting more balance and power.

    I think that's enough for now. I await the critiques that will follow

    #2
    Fyi, Toyotaro Miyazaki (a Kenkojuku-lineage Shotokan Instructor) started an organization called the Int'l Shotokai Federation which might be responsible for some of the confusion as to whether Shotokai is Shotokan or a seperate style. In HIS case, he's teaching Shotokan and Shotokai is just the name of his organization.

    Comment


      #3
      similarly enough brazilian shotokan is actually from harada, and is more similar to shotokai...it's very confusing

      Comment


        #4
        Has Mitsusuke Harada of KDS devolved into teaching Bullshido? - No BS Martial Arts
        ^^Culled.

        This thread was a lineage debate. Bumping it with a critique in differences between ShotoKai and Shotokan doesn't add to the "bullshido Karate" claim.

        Comment


          #5
          Guess what?

          Mas Oyama would beat your ass and your sensei's ass.
          Kyokushin wins again.

          Comment


            #6
            Your shotokai sounds like bs compared to good shotokan.
            "This is why we are here. Because the Martial Arts for too long have been cloaked in an unnecessary level of secrecy bordering on mysticism, and its in these shadows that the cockroaches love to hide. -Phrost"

            Originally posted by Squerlli
            And of course, our resident hard man, underground fighter, kitten rescuer, loving father (I'm serious), and over all very sexy furry motherfucker... Budo monkeh.

            Comment


              #7
              the same way bjj looks sloppier than xma
              I can't... stop.... giggling.....

              BIG one here.
              OOOOOOOHHHHHHH YEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!

              We don't do competition.
              It's okay, we can't all be like Judo.

              rubbish analogy i know
              So does everyone else.

              To an outside observer our karate looks sloppy, lazy, and lacking in power.
              Which obviously isn't true because.........

              we don't focus blows at skin level our contact is a little harder
              IT MAKES SO MUCH SENSE!!!

              instructor did get his nose broken once.
              I'd look for a *shocked* smiley, but I'm hungry and trying to wrap this up.

              nut on the downside
              Tee-hee, you said "nut"

              i am lazy.
              We hold this truth to be self evident.

              This was fun ^_^

              Comment


                #8
                Lol, when shoto-kai produces an elusive fighter, in the UFC, who is quite elusive


                then we will hear your stupid opinions.

                PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
                http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


                Originally posted by Cy Q. Faunce
                3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

                Originally posted by sochin101
                I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
                That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
                Originally posted by HappyOldGuy
                I agree with moosey

                Comment


                  #9
                  It's funny. I saw this thread title and clicked it reflexively. I used to practice with Canada Shotokan, affiliated with Ohshima's SKA; in terms of affiliation and history they're closer to Egami's Shotokai, but (I'm told) it looks more like JKA Shotokan -- somewhere in between (to my eyes, JKA-ers looked stiff and tense tense; Shotokai people looked floppy). I was about to set out the historical divide, funeral flag debaucle, and all that shit.

                  Then I realised that I can't even make myself bother (in spite of how boring work is today). Ultimately, what matters to me is how big a portion of what I learned in CSK turns out to be useful in sparring with people from a different background in my kickboxing classes (answer: most of the kicking, a little bit of footwork, none of the punching; caveat: pretty light sparring so far).

                  All three lineages suffer from the same core problem, which is a lack of objective evaluation in the form of competition, or even alive sparring with people from different martial arts backgrounds (sparring is good, but spar only your fellows and you may never find anyone who exposes the holes and weaknesses characteristic of your style). Neither history, nor philosophy, nor theories of striking and Egami's famous reinventing-the-punch epiphany, can alter this.
                  [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
                  [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
                  “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by 3moose1
                    Lol, when shoto-kai produces an elusive fighter, in the UFC, who is quite elusive


                    then we will hear your stupid opinions.
                    :notworthy

                    To the OP, I think you contradicted yourself numerous times ... too many times. Also not doign competition isn't so much a terrible thing, but pressure testing your skill in open tournaments (open to everyone) will only ever make you better.

                    Now to go do some penetration punches into someones skin (but harder).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Okay, so joke post aside (really, dude, a Karate A vs Karate B thread?) I youtube'd dis here vid and if what you do is what these guys do, then it's not so bad IMO (then again, I'm not a striker).

                      YouTube - Campeonato kumite PARTE 1. Karate Shotokai

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ADM
                        Also not doign competition isn't so much a terrible thing, but pressure testing your skill in open tournaments (open to everyone) will only ever make you better.
                        More than that. I've never yet competed in BJJ and will almost certainly never compete in kickboxing (too much of a pansy, I guess). However, because my kickboxing coach has competed, I know that he has the kind of skills that can be put in the ring. Because my BJJ instructor not only competes, but also produces students who compete successfully, I know that I receive training good enough to put winners on the mats (Tim can both do and teach). Competitive pressure prevents the teaching from getting inbred: If Tim's students all had a hole in their game, it would be found and exploited at open tournaments, and presumably fixed. (Whether I will ever be good enough to place in a tournament is, of course, very debatable, but I have solid evidence that I'm at least getting good training -- the rest is up to me.)

                        It's been said before on these boards: Whether you ever plan to compete enough, only by practicing with people who do compete can you be sure of receiving instruction good enough for competitors.
                        [ petterhaggholm.net | blog | essays ]
                        [ self defence: general thoughts | bjj: “don’t go to the ground”? ]
                        “The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data.”

                        Comment


                          #13
                          WorldWarCheese: Indeed that isn't bad, but wasn't that a competition? And also this guy doesn't spar from 6 - 18 months after starting :\

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Petter
                            More than that. I've never yet competed in BJJ and will almost certainly never compete in kickboxing (too much of a pansy, I guess). However, because my kickboxing coach has competed, I know that he has the kind of skills that can be put in the ring. Because my BJJ instructor not only competes, but also produces students who compete successfully, I know that I receive training good enough to put winners on the mats (Tim can both do and teach). Competitive pressure prevents the teaching from getting inbred: If Tim's students all had a hole in their game, it would be found and exploited at open tournaments, and presumably fixed. (Whether I will ever be good enough to place in a tournament is, of course, very debatable, but I have solid evidence that I'm at least getting good training -- the rest is up to me.)

                            It's been said before on these boards: Whether you ever plan to compete enough, only by practicing with people who do compete can you be sure of receiving instruction good enough for competitors.
                            Very well written Sir, and I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure if I ever looked at it like that before. Pretty happy I train where I train then.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by maofas
                              Fyi, Toyotaro Miyazaki (a Kenkojuku-lineage Shotokan Instructor) started an organization called the Int'l Shotokai Federation which might be responsible for some of the confusion as to whether Shotokai is Shotokan or a seperate style. In HIS case, he's teaching Shotokan and Shotokai is just the name of his organization.

                              Miyazaki Sensei , in his prime was unfricking believable one of the best Ive have seen .

                              he was a direct student of Okano sensei who studied under Funakoshi himself.
                              Move along citizen ,nothing to see here !!!!!

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