12 Separate 10th Dans - Is it a record?

[BomberH]

Who can find the greatest master of all time. Who has the most 10th Dans ever. I reckon Soke Robert Bugh must be up there. He's got 12 separate 10th Dans!

http://www.shobu-ryu.net/

10th Dan in Shorin-Ryu Matsusokan Karate-Do Kyokai (Director/Soke Tony Sandoval)

10th Dan in the World Jujutsu /Aiki-Bujutsu Federation

10th Dan in the World Open Jiu-jitsu Budo Federation

10th Dan Hanshi in Kazoku Ryu (1893) Freestyle Self Defence

10th Dan Hanshi in Samurai JuJutsu Kobudo Organization (Germany)

10th Dan Hanshi in Seibukan Bujutsu Kai (Isle of Men)

10th Dan with the European Association of Daito Ryu-Aiki-Bujutsu

10th Dan Hanshi with the United Martial Arts Alliance

10th Dan Hanshi with the UMAA/Kobujutsu Federation (Grandmaster Taxiarhis Karalis)

10th Dan with Ecole Francaise of Tai-Ho-Jutsu

10th Dan with Budokai International Jujutsu (Paris, France)

10th Dan with Den Ha Kenpo Ryu Aiki Kenpo Jujutsu

[Askari]

Are we looking for only BS ones?

Because some old masters like Kano or Funakoshi had a lot.

Maybe this guy is the next Kano and we just dont know it yet?

[G-Off]

What an odd coincidence that all his degrees are in traditionally useless styles.

[BomberH]

Are we looking for only BS ones?

Because some old masters like Kano or Funakoshi had a lot.

Maybe this guy is the next Kano and we just dont know it yet?

Kano invented the dan grading system. Through out his life he never carried any dan ranks. That would be silly he invented Judo and the dan ranking system. His Judo 12th dan was awarded by the Kodokan after his death. His Ju-Jutsu grades were Menkyo Kaiden the old certification system that preceeded Kano's dan grades.

Sorry to be so geeky.

[Hex]

http://www.shobu-ryu.net/

10th Dan in Shorin-Ryu Matsusokan Karate-Do Kyokai (Director/Soke Tony Sandoval)

10th Dan in the World Jujutsu /Aiki-Bujutsu Federation

10th Dan in the World Open Jiu-jitsu Budo Federation

10th Dan Hanshi in Kazoku Ryu (1893) Freestyle Self Defence

10th Dan Hanshi in Samurai JuJutsu Kobudo Organization (Germany)

10th Dan Hanshi in Seibukan Bujutsu Kai (Isle of Men)

10th Dan with the European Association of Daito Ryu-Aiki-Bujutsu

10th Dan Hanshi with the United Martial Arts Alliance

10th Dan Hanshi with the UMAA/Kobujutsu Federation (Grandmaster Taxiarhis Karalis)

10th Dan with Ecole Francaise of Tai-Ho-Jutsu

10th Dan with Budokai International Jujutsu (Paris, France)

10th Dan with Den Ha Kenpo Ryu Aiki Kenpo Jujutsu

This guy is begging to be called out on his bullshido.

[mike321]

No evidence of fraud presented. This might be silly in the sense of the perpetual student who gets a ton of degrees, but that is quite different from fraud. Maybe a YMAS comedy thread for the constant rank attainment but this is kind of slanderous to put in this forum.

[G-Off]

No evidence of fraud presented. This might be silly in the sense of the perpetual student who gets a ton of degrees, but that is quite different from fraud. Maybe a YMAS comedy thread for the constant rank attainment but this is kind of slanderous to put in this forum.

Agreed...except that I wouldn't say it's slanderous yet. No one's accused him of falsifying his ranks.

I'd bet that they are indeed legit ranks, the comedy aspect is that they're all in BS arts.

[MrBadGuy]

That sounds like a prank to me.

Tai-Ho Jutsu? Tie up a Ho Jutsu? Come on guys, read the lines (or between his belts).

[Askari]

Kano invented the dan grading system. Through out his life he never carried any dan ranks. That would be silly he invented Judo and the dan ranking system. His Judo 12th dan was awarded by the Kodokan after his death. His Ju-Jutsu grades were Menkyo Kaiden the old certification system that preceeded Kano's dan grades.

[SARCASM]Wow, you mean that someone invented the dan rank system.

I am shocked.[/SARCASM]

Seriously though, I thought Kano never received a dan grad at all in Judo, that he was never given one, where did you find the 12th dan reference? Everything I have read puts Kano outside of the dan ranking.

If you really want to get geeky, try explaining why western JuJitsu systems use Dan ranks at all when the dan rank system was created for -do systems.

[BomberH]

No evidence of fraud presented. This might be silly in the sense of the perpetual student who gets a ton of degrees, but that is quite different from fraud. Maybe a YMAS comedy thread for the constant rank attainment but this is kind of slanderous to put in this forum.

Without any evidence I'll happily put my neck on the line and say it is very likely that the majority if not all of these 10th dans have been purchased or received as gifts, without the awarding body making any assessment of the guys skill. Further, I would also say it is highly unlikely that he has certificates for the ranks 1st Dan to 9th Dan in most if any of these styles (suggesting purchased grades).

Why would someone want to purchase ranks they never tested for? Answer to mislead students into believing that they are more knowledgable than they are.

Evidence Part 1

10th Dan with Den Ha Kenpo Ryu Aiki Kenpo Jujutsu (Soke Martin J. Rogers, 10th Dan)

Martin Rogers is a British Jitsu Association 7th Dan - Here is the BJJA dan grade register:
http://www.bjjagb.com/index.cfm?page=23

Just so you know we are talking about the same Martin Rogers, his Zen Ha Kenpo Ryu system is described on the BJJA website locations page.

So how valuable is a 10th dan awarded by a 7th Dan. the next question is did Mr Bugh ever go to the UK to test under M. Rogers or did M. Rogers ever visit Mr Bugh in the US?

[DerAuslander]

If you're going to post in MABS, you better at leas have some research or more information than just "TEE HEE GUIZ LOOK AT T3H IDIOT!"

[mike321]

Without evidence, you are not putting your neck on the line, you are just trashing someone's reputation. They take the risk not you. Just a general comment, because later in the post you offer evidence with documentation to back it up. This is more in line with investigations I have seen here previously.

[Askari]

If you really want to produce a lasting piece of work. I suggest you google each of his ranks and then post the story behind each one.

[Cdnronin]

If you really want to get geeky, try explaining why western JuJitsu systems use Dan ranks at all when the dan rank system was created for -do systems.

Can I play? Western jiu jitsu systems use the Dan ranks as most of them are based on judo in the first place, not koryu jiu jitsu. As well the general public(your target audience) is aware of a black belt, and a 10th dan black belt sounds more impressive than having to explain what a menkyo kaiden means.

[sempaiman]

I hear he also has a 10th dan in Naverikan...