Are "U" ready for the next Bullshido throwdown? (bring Kingdom Hearts AMVs)

[E-Van]

You know when your instructor tells you to introduce someone to the gym? Thats what a TD should look like, and god help them if they wear a gi.

Qouted for awsomenes. This is the best analogy for what a TD should be that I have heard yet.

[The Question]

Its not like its the end of the world, but yeh, the training time could be spent better. If its serious MA time, then it should look like it. If its just socialization, then whats all the "HAVE YOU BEEN TO A THROWDOWN?" crap? Can't really have it both ways.

I hate that "have you been to a TD?" shit too, I don't think that the TD's are anything other than cats getting together and having some MA based fun. If it's going to become something more serious, then some seminar shit needs to happen to guarantee that someone of superior skill will be there.

Where does the "have you been to a TD" crap come from anyway?

Qouted for awsomenes. This is the best analogy for what a TD should be that I have heard yet.

That sounds more like a seminar or a private lesson, dude.

[nightowl]

Did a wing chun guy really submit someone via choke? If it ever got on video...

No, most TDs are not going to match up to a top match mma match. Should it look like one? If it doesn't does that make it lame?

Hedge, are you the voice in the wilderness, the prophet with t3h mad skills whose face must be veiled because the untrained masses cannot look upon it? If what you are saying is that you need top level competition, don't go to a throwdown where most people are going to go for fun- attend a local mma event or grappling competition for that sort of thing. In the meantime, try not to let other people having fun upset you too much and learn to laugh at the ninjers like everyone else.

[E-Van]

Listen, this thread is freaking me out becuase I totaly fucking agree with theQ. Who gives a fuck if a wing chuner wants to craple with a ninja? Dont you think that after they do this, see themselves posted on a website, and having people that actualy train critique them, that they will have there eyes forced open? And if they dont have there eyes opened who gives a fuck?

As for people 'crappling" Im tired of hearing about it. I think 90% of people who do honest grappling today, do it because they enjoyed crappling so much and decided to pursue it. Some people want to show up and crapple? Who is hedge to stop them? Let them crapple, show them why its crap, and show them the benifits of real training. At one point in time, everything you did was shit. Then you trained on it and worked on it and now its no longer shit. Show some kids they need to work on what they are doing at a real gym and give them some insight. Or just punch there face in. Sometimes these two things can serve the same purpouse.


I havent gone to a NorCal TD yet, but I would like to. And when I go its going to be to meet some people, spar hard, drink some beers, and maybe eat some bbq. You wana judge me and critique me? Thats fine. But the only people who should be moufing are people willing to step up.

Why aren't these wing chunners getting shit talked to there face at a TD instead of getting slapped in the face by Bullshido members e-peens once its over? Thats the real fucking question.

[jdinca]

Don't care for the boots.

[MaverickZ]

Because I don't think ANYONE is advocating all out brawling and for the most part, we aren't sociopaths here.

The word you're looking for is psychopath. There are plenty of sociopaths on this forum.

[E-Van]

I dont want to see all out brawling. Hedge makes it sound like unless you fit his criteria you are not welcome at a TD. I asked him earlier in this post how he thought this should be enforced, but had no reply.

I think most TMA are shit, and I also think most here would agree with me. However, most of us started in a TMA, and it took something wonderful like Bullshido to open our eyes.

But what Hedge is advocation just sounds like more Bullshido elitism. What hedge should be advocating is not LESS arm flailers to show up at TD's but MORE. Everyone can still have a good time, and I am sure more then a few people will leave happy and with a sense that perhaps there d34dly s3cr3ts are not what they thought they were, and that maybe they should actualy train. This only happens, however, if there is also more then a few people at the TD who do actualy train. Like Osiris said, I am sure he would still be crappling if it werent for somone who was a legit BJJ'r to put him in his place. How many of you MT guys would still be doing TKD if not for the same reason? Im sure there is a long list of these scenerios.

Bring on the masses! All ages, all skill levels, all types of martial arts. Everyone leaves better off for the event, everyone has a good time, and bullshido trudges on dilegently in its continued pursuit of fighting MA bullshit.

[jdinca]

Let me explain again so that maybe you will understand.

Let's say that Karate Harry Potter (KHP), single dad chunner (SDC), or scary wifebeater guy (SWBG) (or whatever you call them...I don't think any of them are even Bullshido members) manage to read your "critiques" of their sparring. Do you really think you won them over? In the worst case they will now just sink deeper back into whatever martial arts crappiness you feel they came from. But at the very minimum, you have convinced them that you are a total prick, and they won't give a fuck what you think or say on some website they barely ever read. How's that for negligence? They will probably never attend another Bullshido TD again (yay for you). I doubt they will start training the way you think they should as a result of your little jihad here either. Hell, they might end up teaching the chun some day.

I am not negligent. I know the guy who organized the location (aka "awakenedstream" on Bullshido), and he is interested in crosstraining in other styles. We've talked about gyms near where he will be going to college where he can train Muay Thai, BJJ and MMA, and he is genuinely interested in checking them out. I doubt he would have listened to me if I tore into him and his friends with a tirade of whining. If you think your approach is more effective, fine. But it's not my approach.

You're putting way to much effort into responding to what he has to say about anything. If trashing other people who go to TDs and don't meet his standards makes him feel better about himself, let him have at it.

Quite the trollfest. At least Errant is nice enough to post pictures for us.

[Bahuyuddha]

Hedge, are you the voice in the wilderness, the prophet with t3h mad skills whose face must be veiled because the untrained masses cannot look upon it? If what you are saying is that you need top level competition, don't go to a throwdown where most people are going to go for fun- attend a local mma event or grappling competition for that sort of thing. In the meantime, try not to let other people having fun upset you too much and learn to laugh at the ninjers like everyone else.

Hedge just wants people to train well. I don't think he's looking for competition (at throwdowns, anyway). I think he's taking the wrong approach to convincing people though. People don't take criticism well when it comes in the form of internet flaming. It's too easy to just blow it off as some angry self-righteous dude in Texas going RAAAAAR!!! on the internet who you'll never meet. I think Jack's work with DTT was probably constructive, but I haven't seen the annotated video of their sparring and drilling yet (I don't think it has been posted yet).

Those are some nice people at the gym where the NorCal Throwdowncaust was held, and I want them to train well too. I see no point in calling them idiots, because they are not. I think the guy who sparred there for the first time (Wing Chun guy in black) realizes that his training wasn't effective against the Kyokushin guy he was sparring with. If he really cares to learn to fight, he will do whatever it takes to train so that doesn't happen again. If he doesn't really care to learn to fight, then we are wasting our time trying to convince him.

[Bahuyuddha]

You're putting way to much effort into responding to what he has to say about anything. If trashing other people who go to TDs and don't meet his standards makes him feel better about himself, let him have at it.

Quite the trollfest. At least Errant is nice enough to post pictures for us.

You're right. However, in my defense I was a little bit drunk last night when I posted that.

[jdinca]

So, is Hedgehogey actually any good at his sport of choice?

There's a video of him taking on a kid ninja. What more evidence do you need?

[jdinca]

Listen, this thread is freaking me out becuase I totaly fucking agree with theQ.

Amen. Just when you decide he's full of crap, he actually says something rational. The center cannot hold.

[Matt W.]

Where does the "have you been to a TD" crap come from anyway?

Initially, TD's were supposed to remove the anonymous shit-talking and give people a chance to put up or shut up when debating their "theories" about fighting. So, "have you been to a TD" started being thrown around in response to people arguing in favor of something deemed to be ridiculous/unworkable technique, or whatever. It was basically a challenge for them to show up and prove whatever they were claiming. In that sense it was, at least, somewhat appropriate. Somewhere along the way, however, the idea started being pushed that throwdowns are "just for fun", "low pressure", and "a chance to meet". I think, probably, for a combination of liability reasons and so as not to scare people off.

The problem is, those latter purposes for TD's are not really compatible with the initial purpose. So, now you have this strange dichotomy where people will accuse people of "never having shown up to a TD" while simultaneously other people are showing up and just doing their thing with no regard for if it's any good or not or supports the mission of the site. You also get the odd and inappropriate times when people bust out the "have you been to a TD" on people who train at well known schools and compete regularly.

So, we need to decide. Do throwndowns mean something or not? If they do, then Hedge is right about what they should and should not be like. If not, then you're right, ?, that nobody should care what goes on there. And I think we all agree that, either way, TDs should never be used in place of, or seen as greater/more important than regular training and competition.

[jdinca]

Its not like its the end of the world, but yeh, the training time could be spent better. If its serious MA time, then it should look like it. If its just socialization, then whats all the "HAVE YOU BEEN TO A THROWDOWN?" crap? Can't really have it both ways.

Depends. Does attending a TD have an impact on your self worth? I can understand why it would to some but to others, that's pretty sad. Going to a TD and not trying to do well isn't the right way to go but for god's sake, if you don't do well, you shouldn't have to listen to some keyboard warrior critique your every move. At least you made the attempt to show up and perform.

And yes, it's also a social event. Try to compete well AND socialize is very compatible. It doesn't have to be one, or the other.

[jdinca]

Initially, TD's were supposed to remove the anonymous shit-talking and give people a chance to put up or shut up when debating their "theories" about fighting. So, "have you been to a TD" started being thrown around in response to people arguing in favor of something deemed to be ridiculous/unworkable technique, or whatever. It was basically a challenge for them to show up and prove whatever they were claiming. In that sense it was, at least, somewhat appropriate. Somewhere along the way, however, the idea started being pushed that throwdowns are "just for fun", "low pressure", and "a chance to meet". I think, probably, for a combination of liability reasons and so as not to scare people off.

The problem is, those latter purposes for TD's are not really compatible with the initial purpose. So, now you have this strange dichotomy where people will accuse people of "never having shown up to a TD" while simultaneously other people are showing up and just doing their thing with no regard for if it's any good or not or supports the mission of the site. You also get the odd and inappropriate times when people bust out the "have you been to a TD" on people who train at well known schools and compete regularly.

So, we need to decide. Do throwndowns mean something or not? If they do, then Hedge is right about what they should and should not be like. If not, then you're right, ?, that nobody should care what goes on there. And I think we all agree that, either way, TDs should never be used in place of, or seen as greater/more important than regular training and competition.

How about letting the people going to the TD make that determination?