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A Bujinkan guy that actually looks impressive!

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    #31
    Originally posted by SWEHurricane
    Why don't Bujinkan people compete?

    Why don't Bujinkan people spar?
    Speak for yourself

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      #32
      Here comes one now.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by SWEHurricane
        Why don't Bujinkan people compete? Because personally if I wanted to compete I would pick an MA that would get me to that level much faster.

        Why don't Bujinkan people spar? Because they don't want to. Maybe they don't think that combat profieciency is that important for them, don't do it because all the old people have stopped doing it, and often they just don't understand how important it is. Nothing of this is really complicated, and it's not the Bujinkans or Hatsumis fault.

        Think about it, what will an athletic young person usually rather choose. A MA that will take alot of time to master, that dosen't have a good reputation regarding sparring. Or an MA that gives you faster rewards and lets you compete and test your skills against other people on a regular basis? It's not really wierd that organisations like the Bujinkan get like they are. If we think it's worth it we can go and find the gems, or just STFU.
        Seriously, people need to take responsibility for their own training and go and do what they think is of value to them, not look for one single answer to every question.

        But I think that alot of good does come from debates like this.
        One guy does MMA for three years, one guy does t3h ninjerism. Will the ninjerist be able to standing wristlock and san-shin his way to the same level of ability, but over six or more years? That seems to be what your argument suggests.

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          #34
          Uhh... making the screen flash does not equal good technique.
          (That's what they do in film when they can't afford a good fight coordinator.)

          I saw two things:

          1. Swinging a sword at an unarmed and unmoving opponent.
          2. Crappy osotogari.

          Woo.

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            #35
            How exactly DO these guys learn all these super secret arts in the first place? Can't be that much of a secret if they share it freely with any douchebag off the street.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Boyd
              Under what circumstances in human history would it be necessary to train how to properly hack up an unarmed man with a Samurai sword?
              Tax collection?

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                #37
                Originally posted by Boyd
                Under what circumstances in human history would it be necessary to train how to properly hack up an unarmed man with a Samurai sword?
                In human history? Hm.

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GszhYsV3MM

                I don't think a Samurai sword was used in this instance, but I'll bet it would have been helpful.
                Last edited by Cy Q. Faunce; 4/09/2008 12:24pm, . Reason: Slightly better trailer found

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by ironhill
                  Sure, people should be responsible for their own training. But shouldn't Bujinkan instructors be responsible for the training in their own clubs? And who is responsible for grading all the crappy instructors out there? Hatsumi.

                  Not sparring, training dumb techniques and bullshitting about kukan starts with bad instructors. These guys were all approved to teach by Hatsumi so surely he and the other shihan are responsible for the state of their art.
                  That depends on alot of things, at first I used to see the issue as black or white. And I'm probably not the best person to talk about this, but neither are most other people here.

                  These are my opinions:

                  The Bujinkan way of grading is not standardized, and in my opinion it's very bad. That's why I don't think that rank matters at all when talking about the Bujinkan. Most people I know have stopped testing for ranks or giving them to others, so have we at my dojo, it's easier to just forget about it and train.

                  The whole thing is pretty much based on trust, which isn't waterproof when it comes to a big organisation like the Bujinkan, it has probably grown too fast without anyone either willing or being able to stop the growth.

                  And the Bujinkan has never been about creating the ultimate fighter, it has been about learning Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. How you use it and train it is up to you. The problem is that alot of people never get this, and think that what they are doing is going to make them badass fighters, even if it's maybe not going to.

                  And in my opinion there are alot of crappy instructors out there. Some are so crappy that their reason for training like they do is just about pure arrogance. As Hatsumi has said himself, he is not a leader or a teacher, he is a martial artist. It's up to you if you want to learn from him or are able to do so.

                  I think alot of the problems come down to people not knowing what they are training.

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                    #39
                    And the Bujinkan has never been about creating the ultimate fighter, it has been about learning Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu. How you use it and train it is up to you. The problem is that alot of people never get this, and think that what they are doing is going to make them badass fighters, even if it's maybe not going to
                    so it's kind of like stamp collecting then? An end into and of itself with minimal relationship to the external world? you could theoretically use it for something practical like mailing a letter or defending yourself but there are much more efficient ways and it's best for all concerned if it just stays locked up in the glass case and is taken out once a month to show to a friend you tricked into agreeing to take a look at it?

                    I guess it makes sense when you put it like that, thanks!

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by shinbushi
                      Speak for yourself
                      I didn't mean everyone, just some people. Sorry if I made it sound different.
                      About a third of our training time is devoted to sparring, because we want that part aswell, so I'm not trying to talk against it in anyway.

                      Altough if I wanted to compete, which I would like to some day maybe, I wouldn't choose the Bujinkan. At least not without solid crosstraining.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Virus
                        One guy does MMA for three years, one guy does t3h ninjerism. Will the ninjerist be able to standing wristlock and san-shin his way to the same level of ability, but over six or more years? That seems to be what your argument suggests.
                        Sure he might. It depends on alot of things.

                        But if you want to become a really good hand to hand fighter, you should just focus on that. If you pick an org like the Bujinkan, you will get alot of other stuff, but if you want to get really good at one thing you have to focus on that one thing.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Blue Negation
                          so it's kind of like stamp collecting then? An end into and of itself with minimal relationship to the external world? you could theoretically use it for something practical like mailing a letter or defending yourself but there are much more efficient ways and it's best for all concerned if it just stays locked up in the glass case and is taken out once a month to show to a friend you tricked into agreeing to take a look at it?

                          I guess it makes sense when you put it like that, thanks!
                          Lol, yeah you could look at it like that.

                          But as I see it, and I can only speak for my own training, it has given me skills I can use in alot of different ways. Not to mention the joy of training. And when I say joy of training I don't mean I just go there for a workout or to meet people, I enjoy trying to understand it and get better at it.

                          That's why we spar aswell, it means alot to feel that your getting better at something, discovering new things. Even if most people just use it a few times in their life.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by SWEHurricane
                            That's why we spar aswell, it means alot to feel that your getting better at something, discovering new things. Even if most people just use it a few times in their life.
                            Got vid?

                            I doubt it...

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Performance is all about the fundamentals. By "fundamentals" I mean, things that you couldn't possibly do without and still perform. In BJJ that's things like, posture, base, keeping your weight on your opponent, positioning, if you don't have these things whether you do judo, the jits, sambo or no-gi, you can't fight on the ground. The same goes for striking or clinch. Maybe you disagree, but the combat sports virtually are the fundamentals of fighting within their range.

                              The problem with non-sport systems is that their basics are not the same functional fundamentals that we have discovered through sports like MMA. Things like circular blocks and horse stances are not fundamentals. You don't need that shit at all and virtually no competitive fighters that can perform pay any attention things like that, yet they do fine. If they decided to ignore something like, base from inside the guard, then they'd be fucked. They'd be swept every time they hit the ground.

                              The most the bujinkan can claim, is that maybe once five years ago Hatsumi showed something a bit like a double-leg takedown, or once at a seminar we did a thing that looked a bit like a sprawl. Doing something once every five years does not make it a fundamental component of the system. When I talk about the "bujinkan", I'm talking about the stuff that most people are doing, the stuff that people do in Japan. Not the odd dojo that happens to be run by an ex-boxer or judo blackbelt.

                              The bujinkan fundamentals, like the kamae, the sanshin, the kihon are not identical to the fundamentals of performance-based delivery systems. Only by stretching definitions and identifying superficial similarities can this be argued. (such as what happens in every "TMA/kata/the poomse doesn't suck" thread.)

                              Comment


                                #45
                                My two cents: A nineteen second clip cannot impress, especially when half of the time it is fading in or out of black.

                                I read as much of one of the interviews as I can, and not even his good taste in background music can make up for the ninja-myth cock-strokery. There are some things even Metallica cannot make up for. That hurt my soul.

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