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Better Weapon Defense Training

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    Better Weapon Defense Training

    Long story short I'm not happy with any of the knife and gun defense training I've seen both in person at various schools or via the webernets. The problems are numerous and include the lack of realism in the setups, the slowness and awkwardness of response, the lack of improvisation, and as with a lot of the 'give-me-your-wrist-please' styles the attacker never reacts to the attempt to disarm him.

    In an effort to solve this I figure one could replace the traditional dummy items with a squirt gun for pistol training, and a taser for knife training. The squirt gun containing simple water would be a reasonably-less-inaccurate way to see if a move could be completed before the student had his/her head shot off. Attackers would be encouraged to try to pull the trigger as soon as they feel threatened by the student. A dialed-down taser would add accountability to knife defense training and add a bit more adrenaline to the session. Maybe one could construct a dummy knife with a small wire run around the edge to provide the electrical current. Not enough to damage someone, just enough to register a hit. (It's nice if you can throw someone armed with a fake knife, but if it was a real blade would you end up with gashes all over your arms?)

    What do you guys think?

    #2
    Why not really up the ante and use an Airsoft pistol? For blade training, use a Shocknife.

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      #3
      Wow, the shockknife looks right on the mark there, I wonder if its effect can be adjusted. Not too keen on using a BB gun or paintball gun though.

      edit: yeah, the shockknife can be adjusted. very cool :)

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        #4
        that's because most of the knife training aren't FILIPINO ARNIS/KALI training which was and is used by combat soldiers for ages, in world war 2, it was trained and used by filipino guerilla fighters to the U.S. soldiers/marines and frogmen fighting japs in the pacific and continued on by our special forces like navy seals and green berets, marine force recon. Anyone who challenges and criticize that is a moron and don't know what the hell they're talking about, never been in a real knife fight and war. There are ways of knife disarmament realistic in training. It's a matter who is teaching???

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          #5
          Originally posted by gerbilkungfu
          that's because most of the knife training aren't FILIPINO ARNIS/KALI training which was and is used by combat soldiers for ages, in world war 2, it was trained and used by filipino guerilla fighters to the U.S. soldiers/marines and frogmen fighting japs in the pacific and continued on by our special forces like navy seals and green berets, marine force recon. Anyone who challenges and criticize that is a moron and don't know what the hell they're talking about, never been in a real knife fight and war. There are ways of knife disarmament realistic in training. It's a matter who is teaching???

          Ohkay... so are you saying that replacing the dummy weapons is not needed? If so, why; what other methods can be used to dramatically improve weapon defense training?
          Last edited by nullpass; 4/08/2008 3:22am, .

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            #6
            keep the dummy weapons. change the training.

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              #7
              Give me something to work with here guys. I want to understand where you're coming from but I need more than vague non-authoritative commands.

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                #8
                Nevermind; I withdraw my original idea. This is not the place for me.

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                  #9
                  Airsoft works better than paintball for disarm training, mostly because an Airsoft pistol is a more realistic simulation of the shape of a real handgun (no hoppers to snap off during the disarm, etc.) although likewise, because they're not designed for rough handling, they're inclined to break.

                  At extreme close range Airsoft pellets hurt like a sonofabitch, will leave good bruises and probably draw blood unless you're well and thoroughly padded up, which can also be a realism problem. I'm taking full face, neck and groin protection for granted.

                  I believe that it's possible to adjust the muzzle energy of an Airsoft pistol. At a wild guess, for this type of training you'd want a maximum of about 50 fps (fee per second) and maybe much lower than that (again, assuming that you were also well-protected).

                  The other problem with Airsoft is the likelihood of stray shots breaking windows, injuring bystanders, etc.

                  HOWEVER, at the extreme close range that we're talking about, Airsoft is really overkill anyway. I'd suggest using a toy pistol that fires safe foam darts (somewhat more realistic than a squirt gun in that it can't "strafe").

                  Good luck. You might get better responses in the Armory Forum than on this one.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You will be over complicating things with fancy training gadgets, plus who's going to pay for this stuff.

                    Alluminium trainer is the way to go with knives, their the same weight and feel as a real knife.

                    As for guns, a heavy rubber training gun made to the same weight as a real gun is what you need, although they are again quite expensive and usually only available to Law enforcement groups depending where you are.

                    I do FMA but I would consider Greco Roman Grapling to be the best training unarmed against a weapon because of the way they can control your arm / restrain you.

                    In FMA the best defence is a good offence eg: if your unarmed and someone attacks you with a knife, you cut their head off.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by nullpass
                      Nevermind; I withdraw my original idea. This is not the place for me.
                      my post wasn't a vague non-authoritative command, I was just finishing work and did a quick post that I was going to elaborate on when I got home.

                      I'm sorry if I.....

                      No wait, I'm not on MAP anymore, I'm not sorry, I may be a noob but I can say whatever the hell I want. And if my post was too much for you too handle then you are right about one thing. This isn't the place for you.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by wikidbounce
                        In FMA the best defence is a good offence eg: if your unarmed and someone attacks you with a knife, you cut their head off.

                        With what?

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                          #13
                          Red Zone

                          If you're looking for functional knife defense which is both pressure tested through sparring and has reliable street date to back it up, I'd recommend Red Zone.

                          It's effective, easy to pick up and add to your fight game and doesn't require years of playing patty cake with sticks to learn.

                          http://centerlinegym.com/site/content/view/56/68/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Shock knifes are already available and are an excellent tool. If you want a cheap version cover the dummy blade with ink/chalk/food dye and you can see later if you got caught with the blade. It's not instant feedback but it does provide some feedback.

                            For firearms I've no idea.
                            Last edited by ShrekBJJ; 4/08/2008 6:53am, .

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Cletus
                              With what?
                              Stern words

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