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Discussion: Where's the laughing line?

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    Discussion: Where's the laughing line?

    WARNING: Long read!

    So, I've been a member of Bullshido for awhile now, and I always enjoy a good laugh at a martial arts LARPer. The proverbial dead horses of Ashida Kim, Frank Dux, etc. are obvious and easy targets for ridicule. But here's my question: where do things like this fit?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_l39BVocTk

    I posted this recently in the videos section under the TKD vs. Tai Chi rematch thread. The competition is for over-18 beginning MA or MMA-ers. As you can tell, there's very little refined full-contact technique there. Both competitors are certaintly willing to brawl, but there's a lot of wild flailing. The level of combat matches the beginner level of skill here, obviously.

    Here's the thing, in the thread I originally posted this in, there were a ton of people making fun of this and the original video (Tai Chi vs TKD). Again, yes the level of fighting is pretty low. But these are beginning fighters from mostly traditional/usually non-contact MAs, who show more courage than many "masters" from those arts in being willing to fight under MMA rules.

    Maybe it's that I'm from a non-contact MA background so I have a soft spot for them, or because I know the guy who organizes the fights and I was considering competing just for fun, but I have a hard time with people making fun of these videos in a serious manner. The people in these videos are really just discovering how much they don't know or have to improve on, and (this is important) the interviews at the beginning are JUST FOR FUN, as is the overblown presentation. It's just because it's fun to be involved in a semi-UFC fight video.

    In that sense I suppose it is martial arts LARPing-but it's in a way that exposes real ingnorance and flaws in a beginner's game. So here's my question: Should we really laugh at people like this? In my view, discovering ignorance in this way is a GOOD thing, and not something we should ridicule. Traditional MA's are abundant, so lots of martial artists keep having to rediscover and reinvent the UFC 1 wheel for themselves. The way I see it, the point at which we start laughing is when people have this kind of experience and make excuses for their performance and otherwise refuse to grow from it.

    Thoughts? Comments? Feel free to tell me I'm a misguided, sentimental old fool and we should BURY THESE PEOPLE RAAUUGGHHH.
    Last edited by G-Off; 1/26/2008 5:33pm, .

    #2
    Originally posted by KenshinBt10
    That video is fucking awesome. Awesome.

    Chino Latino es Chino, o Latino?
    Originally posted by Goju - joe
    being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by The Question
      That video is fucking awesome. Awesome.

      Chino Latino es Chino, o Latino?
      Actually both, I believe. I don't know him personally though, so I'm not sure.

      Comment


        #4
        There's a McDojo effect when an art gets popular - tons of people sign up en masse for lessons which may or may not be of proper quality or aliveness. (Usually not.) MMA is on the cusp of being watered down into glorified daycare, or in this case a glorified teen center.

        Competition has long been touted as a means of ensuring an MA is viable, an idea I agree with. That being said, what do you believe was "proven" in the competition we just saw? People with different MA backgrounds were competing yes, but with flailing arms and comedic grappling. All that headgear sure as shit removed any real "aliveness," and the technique was so bad that the MA being test really didn't matter.

        Next thing you know, MMA will be "too deadly" to spar. I can see it coming.
        Originally posted by Cullion
        You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
        Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:

        Comment


          #5
          Good fucking post dude.

          I figure most of the people on here don't infact compete. (I don't for example)
          Yet they will sit back and make fun of videos. Is that weak and retarded? Yup.

          Should you give a shit about their comments? Nope.

          It's like a kid sitting at home on the internet 10 hours a day playing world of warcraft living with his parents with no job car or girlfriend calling you a loser and telling you to get a life ;)
          Last edited by vigilus; 1/26/2008 6:43pm, .
          You are not free whose liberty is won by the rigour of other, more righteous souls. Your are merely protected. Your freedom is parasitic, you suck the honourable man dry and offer nothing in return. You who have enjoyed freedom, who have done nothing to earn it

          Comment


            #6
            MMA meets backyard wrestling. There's plenty of that going on already. No real training, just slapfighting with retarded bravado.
            I'm picturing you drooling onto the keyboard as you type, one eye rotating independent of the other as your hands mash the keys. - Sophist

            Comment


              #7
              And to answer the question, yes. Yes they should be laughed at. It's horrible.
              I'm picturing you drooling onto the keyboard as you type, one eye rotating independent of the other as your hands mash the keys. - Sophist

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by GuiltySpark
                It's like a kid sitting at home on the internet 10 hours a day playing world of warcraft living with his parents with no job car or girlfriend calling you a loser and telling you to get a life ;)
                What's with the personal attacks here, buddy?
                Originally posted by Goju - joe
                being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by SFGOON
                  There's a McDojo effect when an art gets popular - tons of people sign up en masse for lessons which may or may not be of proper quality or aliveness. (Usually not.) MMA is on the cusp of being watered down into glorified daycare, or in this case a glorified teen center.

                  Competition has long been touted as a means of ensuring an MA is viable, an idea I agree with. That being said, what do you believe was "proven" in the competition we just saw? People with different MA backgrounds were competing yes, but with flailing arms and comedic grappling. All that headgear sure as shit removed any real "aliveness," and the technique was so bad that the MA being test really didn't matter.

                  Next thing you know, MMA will be "too deadly" to spar. I can see it coming.
                  I don't see that match as being a test of either art at all. I think it's a test of the individual practicioners, and a way to show them their flaws, particularly in regard to where their art has left them. Whether or not headgear gives them the correct information about getting hit in the ring, I'd expect watching the video afterwards would lead to a "damn...I need work" moment.

                  Also, I really should have mentioned: This is not MMA. It's an MMA-style fight between 2 different styles of Kung Fu.

                  What I'm hoping is that the fight above provides an awakening of the shortcomings of each fighters above, and that we probably shouldn't laugh at people who don't know better. We should save that until they come back in a year with the same sloppy technique and no new skill. In my mind, ignorance is bad, but it isn't wrong. Refusing to admit or grow beyond ignorance is.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by KenshinBt10
                    Also, I really should have mentioned: This is not MMA. It's an MMA-style fight between 2 different styles of Kung Fu.
                    They look completely untrained, I think they should learn more from watching this than they originally intended.
                    I'm picturing you drooling onto the keyboard as you type, one eye rotating independent of the other as your hands mash the keys. - Sophist

                    Comment


                      #11
                      ... jesus christ, i know these idiots. i know where they're fighting too.

                      i don't know if i want to join up and fight them or if i should just laugh. or cry.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by vinhthekid
                        ... jesus christ, i know these idiots. i know where they're fighting too.

                        i don't know if i want to join up and fight them or if i should just laugh. or cry.

                        What? There is only one appropriate response. Gong Sau, dude. Gong motherfucking sau.
                        Originally posted by Goju - joe
                        being a dick with skill is only marginally better than being a dick without skill.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Eh, we're laughing at a silly video. A little ribbing never hurt anybody.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Did I read right when the OP said this was a competition? As in a legitimate MMA competition? As in sanctioned? That can't be true.

                            Where's squerli? He's a friend of Blackie Chan's. They make regular appearances at the NYC Throwdowns.

                            Vinh do you really want to soil yourself by getting involved with that fiasco? That's gonna be like the captain of the football team beating up the retarded kid.
                            Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
                            and remember what peace there may be in silence.
                            As far as possible, without surrender,
                            be on good terms with all persons.
                            Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
                            and listen to others,
                            even to the dull and ignorant;
                            they too have their story.

                            -excerpt of the poem called "Desiderata," by Max Ehrman, 1927.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Rivington
                              Eh, we're laughing at a silly video. A little ribbing never hurt anybody.
                              Sure, I agree to that point. And the comments on this particular video haven't been bad yet. It just got me thinking, what's the line?

                              Comment

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