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    #46
    Be happy to work with you, that'd make us very happy

    you don't get an understanding of a particular ma from dvds and internet discussions, you get it from physically working together what could make more sense?
    Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
    -Mentat Text Two (dicto)

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      #47
      This may be the wrong place to do this, but: All these systema threads are making me curious, and I thought I'd throw this out to you systema guys:

      What techniques would you say define systema? For example, Muay Thai's core moves are elbows and knees from the clinch, boxing's core moves are punches, judo has it's throws, akido has standing wristlocks, shootfighting has all those crazy leg locks...what are systema's core moves?

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        #48
        Four principles. Keep moving, keep breathing, maintain your posture, and remain relaxed. We don't teach techniques. I posted a long soliloquy about the reasons for the principles several months ago, but I can't find it. If you really want to know I'll re do it here. Tomorrow.
        Originally posted by Cullion
        You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
        Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:

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          #49
          Cool, would enjoy reading that. Thanks.

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            #50
            Originally posted by SFGOON
            Four principles. Keep moving, keep breathing, maintain your posture, and remain relaxed. We don't teach techniques. I posted a long soliloquy about the reasons for the principles several months ago, but I can't find it. If you really want to know I'll re do it here. Tomorrow.
            For PraMek to that I would add Biomechanical efficiency. Not technique based but, technics are taught as a means of demonstrating principles.

            For anyone interested in about a week I will have a very rough translation done of one of the primary Manuals produced by Victor Zavgorodnij co-authored by Kadochnikov on the Kadochnikov system for military use. If you do want a copy I am going to ask you not to pass it around as it has been a considerable amount of my time in translating it, but would welcome your comments.

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              #51
              Originally posted by melk
              For PraMek to that I would add Biomechanical efficiency. Not technique based but, technics are taught as a means of demonstrating principles.
              That's exactly the way I like to teach, and one of the main reasons why I'm attracted to RMA.

              For anyone interested in about a week I will have a very rough translation done of one of the primary Manuals produced by Victor Zavgorodnij co-authored by Kadochnikov on the Kadochnikov system for military use. If you do want a copy I am going to ask you not to pass it around as it has been a considerable amount of my time in translating it, but would welcome your comments.
              Please mark me down as being interested.
              Check out the Bullshido.net Western Martial Arts Forum for all things Western, martial and arty.

              Bartitsu: the Gentlemanly Art of Self Defence (est. 1899)

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                #52
                yes absolutely Melk, I would love a copy as well.

                I agree with what is being said about the system. It seems less about specific techniques and more about methods. That's one of two main things that attract me to Systema and ROSS... 1. it's more about learning methods and working spontaneously to situations instead of the textbook "he does this, so I do that, because that's what you do, when he does this" 2. since my body is all sorts of messed up right now, and has been for quite some time... i can't even get a decent exercise session in.. let alone train at my MMA school. Systema seems a lot more low key like that. I don't need to go into class and really push it physically.. seems like I can operate in low gear and still be able to participate. well, low enough gear so I don't end up making injuries worse.

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                  #53
                  in response to some of the vids....

                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqYS8kjV9fM

                  I am not too eager to embrace this "duel" kind of knife training. In other words, training to have a knife fight. Because this isn't the nature of most knife attacks. Majority will take place without the victim being able to see the knife, let alone draw his own. Picture a prison yard bum-rush style assault. But then again, this isn't anything new to you guys I'm sure.

                  The second video posted by SFGOON, with the men in suits, and the Evanesence music playing in the background. I've seen that video a lot before. The men in fatigues do some nice manuvers... the guys is suits are putting on some 10 million dollar man entertainment moves. And yeah, that move around the 1 minute mark is excellent, looked very powerful and violent.

                  as far as the videos you posted melk... is that you in the black shirt giving the instruction? I'm going to go out on a ledge and assume it is.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by Dinosaur AMP
                    in response to some of the vids....

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqYS8kjV9fM

                    I am not too eager to embrace this "duel" kind of knife training. In other words, training to have a knife fight. Because this isn't the nature of most knife attacks. Majority will take place without the victim being able to see the knife, let alone draw his own. Picture a prison yard bum-rush style assault. But then again, this isn't anything new to you guys I'm sure.

                    The second video posted by SFGOON, with the men in suits, and the Evanesence music playing in the background. I've seen that video a lot before. The men in fatigues do some nice manuvers... the guys is suits are putting on some 10 million dollar man entertainment moves. And yeah, that move around the 1 minute mark is excellent, looked very powerful and violent.

                    as far as the videos you posted melk... is that you in the black shirt giving the instruction? I'm going to go out on a ledge and assume it is.
                    The Vids SFGOON posted come from the Lenningrad Convention, it was all about flash, and yes after 50+ years of training half that might work, but it was about flash and national pride, especially after the fall of communism and the need to unify people and give them something to be proud about. Alot like early Kung-Fu and Japanese Martial art theatre after the second WW.

                    The guy in the black shirt giving instruction is Matt Powell, not me, I'm not that good(yet).

                    I would also suggest Matt's K-Sys manual as it is a good distillation of the theoretical aspect of Kadochnikov Systema and PraMek.

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by melk
                      For PraMek to that I would add Biomechanical efficiency. Not technique based but, technics are taught as a means of demonstrating principles.

                      For anyone interested in about a week I will have a very rough translation done of one of the primary Manuals produced by Victor Zavgorodnij co-authored by Kadochnikov on the Kadochnikov system for military use. If you do want a copy I am going to ask you not to pass it around as it has been a considerable amount of my time in translating it, but would welcome your comments.
                      melk, I would love to take a look at your translation of this book. I promise not to pass it around as per your request.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by melk

                        For anyone interested in about a week I will have a very rough translation done of one of the primary Manuals produced by Victor Zavgorodnij co-authored by Kadochnikov on the Kadochnikov system for military use. If you do want a copy I am going to ask you not to pass it around as it has been a considerable amount of my time in translating it, but would welcome your comments.
                        I know that I'm new here (i.e. I'm still figuring out Phil Elmore and this thing with cats) but I'd love to see your work if you'd be so kind to share it.

                        My sambo teacher, Alex Barakov, was 60+ when I trained with him and he always emphasised just "learning to work". He also pointed out that the RMA set had some people who were very skilled physically but very inept as a unit. He also thought that you could call it whatever you wanted to but people that knew would recognize it for what it was. On some days he claimed, "Today is Tai Chi day!!" with a big shit-eating grin, usually it was weapons or chokes on that day.
                        Many things we do naturally become difficult only when we try to make them intellectual subjects. It is possible to know so much about a subject that you become totally ignorant.
                        -Mentat Text Two (dicto)

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by melk
                          For anyone interested in about a week I will have a very rough translation done of one of the primary Manuals produced by Victor Zavgorodnij co-authored by Kadochnikov on the Kadochnikov system for military use. If you do want a copy I am going to ask you not to pass it around as it has been a considerable amount of my time in translating it, but would welcome your comments.
                          If you have text files of the current draft and the untranslated Russki, I'd be happy to check it out in a limited way as my wife is Russian and she speaks understandable English. That's understandable to me anyway.

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                            #58
                            I'de be very interesting in seeing the translation. I used to train with a guy named Jnana who was trained in systema, among a bunch of other things in the Soviet Union. He had a lot of interesting insights.

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                              #59
                              BTW, it's not that I don't like kettlebells, I have worked with them and they are ass kickers.
                              I don't disagree with any weight training...but, I have stipulation:

                              If you can't handle your own body weight, why try to master another form of weight?

                              I think people should be able to handle their own body weight before they start on other weight - I have been in many gyms where a guy can lift a whole loft abd bench like crazy, but can only do biomechanically challenging exercises about 2 reps out of the 8 I would expect an intermediate student to do.

                              Master your own weight, then move to other weights - that's my rule. I have no weights in my house. I do have an olympic bench and bar, but no weights. I have a chin up bar, a mat area, a yoga mat, one of those big cool rubber balls I can work my abs on, and two pit bulldogs who like to pull. I might get some kettlebells, as I think I've mastered my own weight enough to do so

                              But, I always come back to a question I heard asked once: 'Apes, monkey, dogs, cats, all animals are stronger, either in general, or by weight to size ratio than human - we're among the weaker large animals. And I've never seen a dog, lion, tiger, monkey, or ape lift weights - only body weight exercise. So, why should I?'

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                                #60
                                I'm not sure that those animals could learn to lift weights. And if they were able to, they just might.

                                There are modes of weightlifting for big muscles, others for functional strength etc. etc. Sometimes bodyweight exercises can be too challenging and you'll need weight to bring yourself up to par.

                                But, I've been a monster of iron for the last fourteen years and have only recently started learning real bodyweight workouts. I may have a contradicting epiphany sometime in the near future.
                                Originally posted by Cullion
                                You sound like a foaming-at-the-mouth-loon out of Dr. Strangelove.
                                Sometimes, we put Ricin in the Cocaine. :ninja7:

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