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Wing Chun? hard style. Wing Tsun? softer than Aikido. Flipside? practically limp.

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    #16
    Originally posted by Flipside
    ... some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective.
    So, by inference from the above statement, more complicated movements means more effective.

    Gotcha.
    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

    My Bullshido fan club threads:
    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
    ATTN TOM KAGAN
    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Tom Kagan
      So, by inference from the above statement, more complicated movements means more effective.

      Gotcha.
      No, just different ways depending on the situation.

      Originally posted by It is Fake
      Oh so you were trying to say you have the real Bing Dun.
      Nope


      Originally posted by It is Fake
      I don't know what a testosteron is but, if it makes you want to chun, I don't want any of it.
      That's the most stupid reply I have ever heard.
      Last edited by Flipside; 10/02/2007 3:04pm, .

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Flipside
        No, just different ways depending on the situation.
        But that's not what you said. What you said was, "I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective." Which asserts that the more complex movements are thereby more effective. This very well may be the case. Lord knows, if someone simplified a standard punch to the point where nothing but the elbow was providing the mechanism of the attack, it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a strike with good hip rotation and proper form.

        However, overly complex maneuvers tend to be terribly ineffective. If your typical shoulder-lock requires eight steps when a similar or equivalent technique in another style requires only three, yours will obviously be the inferior in practical application. There's simply much more that can go wrong in those extra steps, given the unpredictability of a resisting fighter.

        So, are you saying that Keith Kernspecht watered-down techniques which were already efficient, or are you saying that he culled some of the more grandiose maneuvers from his teaching?

        --Joe

        Comment


          #19
          That's the most stupid replie I have ever heard.[/quote]

          Just wait, we're just getting started!!!

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Kung-Fu Joe
            But that's not what you said. What you said was, "I meant that in the wing tsun of Keith Kernspecht some movements are simplified thus becoming less effective." Which asserts that the more complex movements are thereby more effective. This very well may be the case. Lord knows, if someone simplified a standard punch to the point where nothing but the elbow was providing the mechanism of the attack, it wouldn't be anywhere near as effective as a strike with good hip rotation and proper form.

            However, overly complex maneuvers tend to be terribly ineffective. If your typical shoulder-lock requires eight steps when a similar or equivalent technique in another style requires only three, yours will obviously be the inferior in practical application. There's simply much more that can go wrong in those extra steps, given the unpredictability of a resisting fighter.

            So, are you saying that Keith Kernspecht watered-down techniques which were already efficient, or are you saying that he culled some of the more grandiose maneuvers from his teaching?

            --Joe
            An example: in the second form, Kernspecht teaches a three times the same bong, while in that of Allan Fong (also a student of leung ting) we have a bong, a striking bong and a bong coming from below. Depending on the situation you can use the one that fits the most.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Flipside
              An example: in the second form, Kernspecht teaches a three times the same bong, while in that of Allan Fong (also a student of leung ting) we have a bong, a striking bong and a bong coming from below. Depending on the situation you can use the one that fits the most.

              It's a fucking form, dude. It's called Choreography!

              If you honestly think any of those bongs yer smokin' are specifically referring to an application, you are mistaken.

              Forms don't point to application. Application points to form.
              Last edited by Tom Kagan; 10/02/2007 2:57pm, .
              Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
              "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

              "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

              My Bullshido fan club threads:
              Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
              Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
              Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
              Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
              Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
              I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
              TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
              ATTN TOM KAGAN
              World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
              Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
              I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
              Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Tom Kagan
                It's a fucking form, dude. It's called Choeography!

                If you honestly think any of those bongs yer smokin' are specifically referring to an application, you are mistaken.

                Forms don't point to application. Application points to form.
                That's what I tell you, in a certain situation you can refer to the one of three bongs of the forms. Isn't that aplication pointing to the choreography of the form?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Hello, Flipside.
                  Welcome to Bullshido.
                  So, do you consider joining the upcoming Dutch Bullshido Throwdown in February?

                  CLICK & WATCH
                  :
                  I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

                  "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
                  " - by Vorpal

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Flipside
                    That's what I tell you, in a certain situation you can refer to the one of three bongs of the forms. Isn't that aplication pointing to the choreography of the form?

                    No, not specifically.

                    Regardless you just changed your position by flipping it over. You were previously implying you use the form to practice a specific movement you then try in application.

                    And, even if you disagree with my interpretation of what you said, I will point out that if your bong is any good or useful, there are A LOT more variations and nuances to BongSao than just three. Therefore, clearly the BongSao in a form is already an abstraction - unless you have a gazillion different BongSao in your form. (Don't bullshit me, I KNOW you don't.)

                    As long as ANY abstraction is left in the form you can interpret it any way you want. Your comment implying that something was made too simple because there is only one variation repeated three times instead of any number of variations each performed once is thus invalid.


                    This is getting into the nature of the forms purpose, but a rule of thumb for Chinese MA:

                    - Three repeats = Important in some way.
                    - Performed once = Not so much.
                    Last edited by Tom Kagan; 10/02/2007 3:17pm, .
                    Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
                    "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

                    "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

                    My Bullshido fan club threads:
                    Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
                    Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
                    Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
                    Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
                    Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
                    I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
                    TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
                    ATTN TOM KAGAN
                    World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
                    Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
                    I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
                    Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Making a wing chun thread is like propping up a box with a stick with a string tied to it, and putting a copy of Atlas Shrugged under it as bait. Making a _un sucks thred is the real wing chun trapping.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Flipside


                        That's the most stupid replie I have ever heard.
                        Apparently, you haven't read your posts in this and the other thread it was culled from.

                        Can you tell me what a replie is?

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Rep Lee, the undefeatable scourge of the Internet...

                          CLICK & WATCH
                          :
                          I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

                          "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
                          " - by Vorpal

                          Comment


                            #28
                            See, I told you he was an asshat.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Virus
                              Yeah that's funny because the only evidence for wing chun is....well...there is no evidence.
                              Alan Orr's people do alright.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Flipside
                                That's the most stupid reply I have ever heard.
                                Um... So you havent read the rest of the forum then? I'm just sayin, there are some stupids out there. Or in your house, either way.

                                Oh, and pick an opinion, Fencehugger.

                                Comment

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