Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

_ing _un sucks: Kevin Chan "streetfighting"

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #61
    Originally posted by It is Fake
    He has DTT logic. He trains good BJJ therefore it translates to the Chun.

    No, not the way you stated earlier. The way DTT says a few seminars and craplling make good grappling.
    Fair enough...and if he trains w/ Kevin Chan he trains good wing chun too. I was just trying to point out the ridiculousness of the 'too deadly' argument.

    Comment


      #62
      I looked at Kamon Wing Chun when I was in Wing Tsun, they sucked big time, no power in hits, weird useless bong saus and no hard sparring. I know of at least 1 instructor leaving due to their business practices as well. Still sounds like you could get some BJJ training !

      Comment


        #63
        My favourite old skool self defense demo video..


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http:...yt]C6q3XE_-kEM

        Comment


          #64
          I thought Kamon Wing schools did spar at a 'certain level', got any videos Kamon Guy?

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by ty5
            I thought Kamon Wing schools did spar at a 'certain level', got any videos Kamon Guy?
            Yes, it is at the beginning of the thread.:)

            Comment


              #66
              That kosen judo video re-done in plain clothes would be 1000X better and a more realistic self defence demo.

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by your next
                I looked at Kamon Wing Chun when I was in Wing Tsun, they sucked big time, no power in hits, weird useless bong saus and no hard sparring. I know of at least 1 instructor leaving due to their business practices as well. Still sounds like you could get some BJJ training !
                Hahaha, are you joking? Kamon is one of the best arts with regards to power!! What we stay away from is silly 'traditional' moves that don't work.

                Your Next - I don't know what you have seen of Kamon, but you have certainly got us mixed up with something else.

                Sparring gets very hard later on, and i should know - I box and fight in MMA tournaments.

                And what you have to member is that wing chun has no 'sparring' - that is a sports mindset

                What Kamon has is hard, aggressive, powerful drills designed to smash into your attacker and move as he moves (ie if he crouches into a ball, you don't stop fighting. If he hits back, we move with it and deal more damage)

                I apologise for the 'too deadly' comment - it did not mean to come out this way. What I was trying to get across is that if Kevin Chan had smashed into us at full power (causing us to bleed, break limbs etc) it would defeat the purpose of the video, which is to show wing chun at a basic level.

                For anyone (even you 'Your Next') who has only caught a glimpse of Kamon is certainly welcome to come down to the demo on the 29th September, which is a bit more real, and explains what we do in greater context
                If you can't make the demo, come into one of our classes. Kevin Chan teaches at Croydon, Covent Garden (Wednesdays), Beckenham and Portsmouth
                Unlike a lot of wing chun schools, you can come in and sit on a chair at any of our classes and watch the lesson. If you have any questions, the instructor will answer them

                Obviously it is hard to go through or relate as to the realism of wing chun on a forum, and it is always better to see things in person

                As for the instructor who left - Steve Setters. He was a very traditional thinking martial artist. He treated students like they were in the army and wasn't too sociable.
                He left on friendly terms with Kamon and hasn't had too much success on his own (his white lotus school has closed twice) and i believe he got into trouble with the ninjitsu community. I personally enjoyed traaining under him, but he put a lot of people off.

                Other people have left due to work commitments, family, to go travelling etc, but I have certainly heard of other arts losing a lot more people than we have!!

                The art I train in at the moment (I won't name names, unless people PM me), loses students every week. In my years of teaching professionally I have had around 10 students leave - and most of these merely transferred to other classes as they couldn't make Saturdays!

                With regards to the grappling of Kevin Chan, something haunted me big time. During one of his tournament victories under Gracie Barra, he contacted me and told me the good news. he was talking about BJJ and said that he still felt that it was his second art and that wing chun was what he was best at. When you see Kevin's BJJ, you start to realise how good he is at kung fu....

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Kamon Guy
                  ...Sparring gets very hard later on, and i should know - I box and fight in MMA tournaments...
                  Hi, it's always good to have somebody with personal experience about the thread topic at hand...

                  Are there any other Kamon videos you could post a link to, so that we get a better picture of the system (like training on regular classes, sparring, incorporating of grappling techniques, etc...)?

                  Also, would you mind being more precise on your "boxing and MMA tournaments"? Any videos, links, results?

                  There's also this purely technical question that came to my mind when watching Mr. Chan's forms in the video. I wonder about the way Mr. Chan executed the Chum Kiu "arm breaking" moves - do you use them in the way shown on video or is there another application taught at Kamon?

                  Thanks for the answer.

                  CLICK & WATCH
                  :
                  I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

                  "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
                  " - by Vorpal

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Kamon Guy: why not just film you and someone else doing a hard sparring session? Since you seem to do them regularly, it shouldn't be a problem to just set up a tripod or even get a friend to film it.

                    Originally posted by ty5
                    My favourite old skool self defense demo video..


                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6q3XE_-kEM
                    At about :50 on time left clock we do that exact wristlock in our TKD class...

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Tonuzaba
                      Hi, it's always good to have somebody with personal experience about the thread topic at hand...

                      Are there any other Kamon videos you could post a link to, so that we get a better picture of the system (like training on regular classes, sparring, incorporating of grappling techniques, etc...)?

                      Also, would you mind being more precise on your "boxing and MMA tournaments"? Any videos, links, results?

                      There's also this purely technical question that came to my mind when watching Mr. Chan's forms in the video. I wonder about the way Mr. Chan executed the Chum Kiu "arm breaking" moves - do you use them in the way shown on video or is there another application taught at Kamon?

                      Thanks for the answer.
                      No problem. I like to be a little 'discrete' about my boxing and cage fights as I am not licensed... I also work for the police so I have to a bit careful with what I say.
                      you really don't want to see my tournaments - they are messy and I'm a big fat b*stard who does not look good in shorts!!

                      A good boxing example though (just to back up some of our boxing talk) is Paul Webber. He is an ex pro boxer (undefeated) and a senior level instructor at Kamon. He has taught Master Chan privately and has held a few seminars at Kamon.
                      He is one of the most knowledable people I know with regards to boxing.

                      The tok sao (arm breaking moves) are used i a varierty of ways at Kamon. What you have to realise is that the traditional way of snapping peoples arms do not always work, so we often use the move as a hold. If you capture that persons centre line with his arm, you can move even the biggest guys around (because they have elost leverage)

                      I'm not very good at the whole post thing - if you go to http://www.kamonwingchun.com/Gallery.aspx , there are a few vids

                      There is also one at the end of Sihing Lee Saunders and Sihing James Horgan doing a quick demo
                      http://www.kamonwingchun.com/VideoLibrary.asp

                      Again, please remember that this was just a demo and not a full on fight

                      If anyone has any questions, please do come and ask. Of course like most arts out there, we have a lot to learn and build on and there are most definately better arts, better fighters, but Kamon is by far the best training I have recieved in London

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Fat pasty white instructor: Check

                        Unverifiable 'illegal fight' claims: Check

                        Sparring too dangerous: Check

                        "breaking limbs" claim: Check


                        Conclusion: BS merchant

                        Comment


                          #72
                          I am on the fence here.

                          The __ing __un looks like "good" __ing __un and the major instructor cross trains (brown Belt BJJ) and posts things like:

                          I believe that one must be familiar with all possible fighting arenas. You simply cannot guarantee that you will be able to remain on your feet in a fight. By training in the acknowledged and proven best style for ground fighting I am able defend myself in the event a confrontation goes to the floor.
                          What percentage of the students at these Kamon Clubs have coloured BJJ belts?

                          How many fight in competition?

                          Comment


                            #73
                            I've no problem with his belt in BJJ, as it seems to be confirmed that he earned it. I've a problem with the deadly mentality that he seems to be teaching to his students concerning the Chun. And that tied with the obviously not-so-deadly demo for "self defense" is a sticking point that will remain sticky until I see chain punching and "deadly throat strikes" which are a) efficient, b) useful, c) deadly, d) used in a full contact setting, e) proven to be effective. Otherwise, it's the same tired _ing _un argument we've beaten the hell out of already, except with BJJ added to give it authority.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by Necroth
                              I've no problem with his belt in BJJ, as it seems to be confirmed that he earned it. I've a problem with the deadly mentality that he seems to be teaching to his students concerning the Chun. And that tied with the obviously not-so-deadly demo for "self defense" is a sticking point that will remain sticky until I see chain punching and "deadly throat strikes" which are a) efficient, b) useful, c) deadly, d) used in a full contact setting, e) proven to be effective. Otherwise, it's the same tired _ing _un argument we've beaten the hell out of already, except with BJJ added to give it authority.
                              KAMON now, stop being so harsh... :laughing1

                              CLICK & WATCH
                              :
                              I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!

                              "Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid shit back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce.
                              " - by Vorpal

                              Comment


                                #75
                                This isn't harsh. Look at my posts about Aikido or ask kiaiki and GuiltySpark. Now that is harsh.

                                PS: You make good posts for a chunner/reformed chunner. And you have a sense of humor. And you're one country over from my family's main component heritage (I am 1/4 Czech from mother's side). So, basically, what I am saying is: I don't know if you're really a chunner/reformed chunner...I've suspicions that you are actually a college student writing a dissertation on Bullshido.

                                (The above is sarcasm, by the way. Good work on the "Getting BS on TV in Slovakia".)

                                Comment

                                Collapse

                                Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                                Working...
                                X