Being too nice : when did you stop?

[lechuza]

I've been training in no-gi jiujitsu for 2 years now. When i started out i tried to avoid relying overtly on my weight (240 lbs.) and spaz strength. Now after absorbing countless brutal cross faces, third point pressures and knees on belly from guys oblivious to my consideratons...i think it's time a made a change in my training game plan...nothing too comspicuous, though.

When did you stop being "nice" and how did you come to your decision?

[Coyote]

I never was, because nobody was ever nice to me.
Way of the world.

[Asriel]

I've been having the same thoughts. I stopped my escape the other night because my elbow was in the guy's groin and subsequently didn't escape. A few minutes later after we'd swapped positions and restarted he proceeded to put his hand in my face and his fingers in my eye.

[Locu5]

"Brutal crossfaces," "third point pressures," and "knees on belly" ???? OH NOOOOEESSS!!!!

Shit, toughen up and start playing your game.

[lechuza]

"Brutal crossfaces," "third point pressures," and "knees on belly" ???? OH NOOOOEESSS!!!!

Shit toughen up and start playing your game.

Well, tough guy...the point is, i would get admonished by pencil necks like you if i used the same tactics.:biggrin:

[cyrijl]

Yeah but it sucks when your opponent is just using brute force to hurt you without using any technique.

For me, I typically let go of hold if I find myself using pure strength. If i try a RNC and just get his jaw, I just let go and hold onto position. I'd just rather learn and get better. Tapping people != Progressing

[Locu5]

So your club mates would complain if you crossfaced them and used the knee on belly position (let's ignore pressure points, because it is bullshit and a waste of their time and yours)? Then they are pussies who need to toughen up too. You are doing your game a huge disservice. You also do them a disservice by letting them get away with bullshit.

In short, shut the fuck up and go train.

[FictionPimp]

I stopped being nice when I started rolling with blue belts and guys 20+ pounds bigger then me and in better shape then me. If your not as skilled as me, I'm going to work with you and not put you threw the bad stuff unless you are pushing it. If you are as good as me or better I'm pulling out all the stops.

This doesn't mean strenght and no technique (hell I have no strength). It means using every position and my weight as best as I can. Crossface, knee on belly (knee on belly is a club favorite), knee on neck/head, wrist locks, anything legal in NAGA basically. However, I expect the same to be done back to me. You can't spar 100% all the time howerver, I understand that too, but you need to do this in order to prepare for competition.

[JohnnyFive]

I'm always nice.

But I am a judoka and therefore by definition a gentleman.

Seriously, though being a pretty big guy, usually I have enough problems accidentally hurting people without trying to do it on purpose. Personally, I think a lot of those things (well, crossfacing is illegal in judo) are not going to be very helpful in the long run -- in competition or the street or whatever, you're not going to give up just because someone has their knuckles stuck behind your jaw, or a knee in an uncomfortable place, and you shouldn't rely on things like that.

I mean, unless it's international/some state competition, you basically never see high level guys do stuff like that to each other.

[cyrijl]

I don't mind a crossface or knee on belly. I took 'not being nice' as just beating the hell out of someone just because using no skill or technique

[GoldenJonas]

For me, I typically let go of hold if I find myself using pure strength. If i try a RNC and just get his jaw, I just let go and hold onto position. I'd just rather learn and get better. Tapping people != Progressing

Exactly. There are many times where I'm going for an americana and just let it go because muscling it into place is stupid in training and the same for an RNC or any other submission. There is nothing like some tard fishing for an arm bar by jamming the arm at different angles on his hips and thighs.

Now, knee on belly is a new staple of my game and I'm 210lbs. Granted, if I'm rolling with a guy who is 160lbs I'm not a dick and I don't give him the full weight and shin across the solar plexus but...come on. I'm also the first to person to say "hey you OK" mid roll if a wayward elbow or knee lands somewhere painful. Every single time my partner says "nope, I'm cool" and gives the universal signal to continue; a pat on the arm or back. My classmates do the same with me. Shit I've gotten wayward knees, elbows, and heads that split my lips and have made me bleed all over the mat. To which I get "dude, shit, I'm sorry man, you OK" from my training partner every time, and he means it.

You should show mutual respect for each others physical well being while still refining your technique by getting into uncomfortable positions. It is not a matter of being "nice" or not its a matter of mutual respect and a willingness to get better, technically.

Next stop gitmo...........

[kohadril]

I'm nice in the hopes that the larger, more skilled people that I grapple with (90% of my gym) won't hurt me too badly. By "nice" I mean that I show restraint when it's clear that something I'm doing is painful to my opponent without being useful or necessary to me. Then again, I don't consciously avoid certain moves, and there have been very few times when I've have to back off. At 148, my knee-on-belly isn't likely to hurt anybody; against guys my size it's exactly what they expect, and against bigger guys it's a joke.

[lechuza]

So your club mates would complain if you crossfaced them and used the knee on belly position (let's ignore pressure points, because it is bullshit and a waste of their time and yours)? Then they are pussies who need to toughen up too. You are doing your game a huge disservice. You also do them a disservice by letting them get away with bullshit.

In short, shut the fuck up and go train.

...actually you're right...i think i'm reaching the point where i need to start concentrating on what i'm trying to accomplish/learn and not give a fuck about any cry babies i encounter in the process...but i'm definitely not trying to hurt my training partners or trying to dominate for the sake of my own ego.

[jnp]

Newbs regularly try to stupid crap like digging their fist or elbow into my throat, elbow into soft tissue etc. I just smile, reverse them and demonstrate how pain can be properly applied using good technique. It's all about reciprocation. If you're nice to me, I'll be nice to you. If you're a total dickface on the mat, I might introduce you to my patented muscle-spasm inducing knee on lower back technique.

[hazing]Then again, I'm not a crybaby motherfucker like the OP.[/hazing]

[MaverickZ]

Jiujitsu, the gentle art. I never stopped being nice, to my class mates. Even if someone new comes into class and starts manhandling everyone and being a general dick. I'll still be nice, and show them the error of their ways through nice methods. The entire idea behind jiujitsu is that you DON"T have to be a mean jerk to control and submit your opponent.

Competition is a different story, but only slightly.