Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Do 90% of fights really go to the ground? The LAPD apparently doesn't think so many:

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Do 90% of fights really go to the ground? The LAPD apparently doesn't think so many:

    This author of this e-journal article discusses the "90%" statistic concerning how many fights end up on the ground, and uses statistics from the LAPD to find that fewer fights go to the ground than thought, along with other notable info

    http://ejmas.com/jnc/2007jnc/jncart_Leblanc_0701.html


    #2
    Some people take the gracies seriously Osrisis.
    カンフー

    Comment


      #3
      At the beginning, I thought the author was going to try to disprove the idea that the majority of altercations go to the ground,, but in the end it showed that th majority actually do. Of course it's important to remember also that what a police officer needs to know is often more "neutralization" than "attacking." Still, interesting read.

      Dave

      Comment


        #4
        The article says closer to 2/3rds of the fights go to the ground, and that when officers have ground training, they're far less likely to employ greater force or suffer injury.

        So it diminishes the stereotype that "all fights go to the ground", but still emphasizes the necessity of groundfight training.

        Comment


          #5
          Hearing the "90% of fights go to the ground" line is a sure sign that you are about to enter a really stupid conversation.

          I actually had a conversation with a Wing Chun guy begin like this. It ended with an explanation of why Wing Chun is better than kickboxing.

          Comment


            #6
            Here is the actual abstract of the article
            So the more of the story: learn to grapple.

            Comment


              #7
              Don't forget that LEOs use force for a different reason than your 'standard' physical altercation. I'm not arguing either side, but it's an important fact. And there have been a number of studies suggesting that there is a direct correlation between the competency of an LEO's empty hand use of force situations and the potential for excessive force to be used.
              "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
              - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by OnceLost
                Don't forget that LEOs use force for a different reason than your 'standard' physical altercation. I'm not arguing either side, but it's an important fact. And there have been a number of studies suggesting that there is a direct correlation between the competency of an LEO's empty hand use of force situations and the potential for excessive force to be used.
                Someone that studies how to hurt people, when given the chance, will hurt people. Big surprise! There are many good cops out there. There are also many, who, if it weren't for the job, would be in jail themselves. I've seen several of the most thuggish, sleazy guys from my youth grow up to be cops, and then were dismissed from the Oakland/Berkeley police force. Some guys are just on a power trip, and it is a quick route to power. Still, when your house is getting robbed, what do you do- call the ACLU? Plus, some guys need a little beat down, once in a while. It's all part of the game for some? Right?
                "Coffee is for Closers" GlenGarry Glenross

                Comment


                  #9
                  Two things;

                  The gracie percentages are ridiculous. Fights go to the ground often when someone is knocked down, unable to defend themselves.

                  No one (smart) is arguing that a good grappler can't take you down if they want to, but to assume that all fights turn into BJJ tourneys is nuts.

                  And yes, I didn't bother to read the rest of this thread. This is all I really care to say and I think it's view we'll all embrace (dammit).
                  "[Fighting for Points] is doubtless very pretty, and invariably draws applause, but preferences should always be given to blows that do some business, to good straight hits that do something toward finishing the fight.
                  A man who has carefully trained for brilliant tapping play, will find himself considerably out of it in case he is called upon to do any real work."
                  -A.J. Newton, Boxing.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    No sane person belives the 90% myth, BJJ'er or not. That's been clear for YEARS.
                    Monkey Ninjas! Attack!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Someone that studies how to hurt people, when given the chance, will hurt people. Big surprise!
                      I phrased that the wrong way...the correlation is that cops who know what they are doing are LESS likely to use excessive force. Sorry for the confusion.
                      "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
                      - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by The Villain
                        Its still most of them and you still need to know how to grapple. Why do we care?
                        Well said.

                        It either happens or it doesn't, I've seen/been in both types, either or, why not be prepared for the eventuallity?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by OnceLost
                          I phrased that the wrong way...the correlation is that cops who know what they are doing are LESS likely to use excessive force. ...
                          Because we don't have to.

                          If I FIGHT you (as opposed to simply arrest you) you are going to the ground, period. This is because I cannot cuff you as safely when you are standing.

                          Like OnceLost said, the comparison is somewhat misleading as my aims as an LEO are different to "Mr. Citizen". Even off-duty I would still tend to favour downing and restraining because again if I fight you then you need arresting.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Absolutely. If I know how to take you down empty-handed and work on restraint, why bother beating you with a baton?
                            "Reason is a choice. Wishes and whims are not facts, nor are they a means to discovering them. Reason is our only way to grasping reality -- it's our basic tool of survival. We are free to evade the effort of thinking, to reject reason, but we are not free to avoid the penalty of the abyss we refuse to see."
                            - Terry Goodkind, "Faith of the Fallen"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by OnceLost
                              Absolutely. If I know how to take you down empty-handed and work on restraint, why bother beating you with a baton?
                              Less fun?

                              Comment

                              Collapse

                              Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                              Working...
                              X